By FWD Honda auto-x standards, I have a soft and understeery setup on paper, yet the car feels very balanced to me in auto-x settings. Normally it's easy to get the rotation I need in the tight corners while keeping stability in transitions, and today on a wet course even with the rear shocks at only 50% stiffness (same for fronts) the rear was *very* active and I spun 270* on my last run... I wasn't going banzai-crazy on that one either, just a little too much trail braking.

Comparing to other auto-xers' typical 450/600 or thereabouts rates and big fat rear swaybar coupled with not so huge front bar (or none at all), I'm amazed my car feels this neutral. I know it has a lot to do with driving style but I've tried a few different things - the car is always pretty balanced. Note that this ISN'T a problem, I'm just curious as to what could possibly be the cause because it's always kinda surprised me. I'm no driving god, but I do place quite well overall and for my class (SM) so it's not like I'm a drift-crazy hack. My setup:
'98 Integra LS coupe
-GCs, 380/350 rates, 8"/7" springs, lowered about 2.0"/1.4" from stock
-Suspension Techniques 25.4/19mm bars, solid, polyurethane mounts.
-OTS Koni Yellows, settings usually end up at about 50%F/90%R for dry auto-x's. Today's wet course I used 50%/50% and still got a little more rotation than I really needed.
-Toyo RA-1s, full tread with ~8 events on them (we get a lot of rain and I need my tires to last a while). About 2/32nds to the wear bars now.
-~120lbs weight reduction in front and ~80lbs rear in auto-x trim.
-Alignment: 0 toe F/R (daily driver), -2.0*/-1.4* F/R camber.
-~150whp/128wtq LS all-motor, 4.40 FD and ITR LSD.

I've done a lot of frontal weight reduction and Integras have more even weight balance than a typical Civic hatch, but still... those spring rates and bar sizes are quite conservative compared to most Honda guys' setups. What's the deal and/or what am I doing wrong?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by White98LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What's the deal and/or what am I doing wrong?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've found that the harder I push the car and the faster i've gone, the more I have to dial out understeer and make it more 'loose'.

 

I'm finding the opposite to be the case with me. If I start going too hard and fast, that's when the tail gets unruly at which point I have to either rein it in with damper/tire pressure settings or by exercising more discipline in my driving hehe. For what it's worth, I believe I was 5th out of about 40-45 drivers overall in this morning's run group... not to sound wholly immodest, but I don't think I'd be doing quite that well if I was being too timid with the car.

Forgot to mention: I like using 35-36psi F and R. On the street it handles a lot "safer" and pushes much more... probably a mix of street tires and me not going crazy like I do in auto-x.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've found that the harder I push the car and the faster i've gone, the more I have to dial out understeer and make it more 'loose'.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by White98LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm finding the opposite to be the case with me. If I start going too hard and fast, that's when the tail gets unruly </TD></TR></TABLE>

You just said the same thing, White98LS.

Give me a understeering pig of a car, I'll spin it right round (baby right round like a record baby right round round round).

I think it has more to do with the driver in this case. It's more likely the driver than something magic in your setup. I tracked a rental Neon from Thrifty earlier in the year, I didn't think it understeered too bad, but then again I was trail braking half-way into each corner and really tossing it around in ways that would make my Integra get all ***-happy.

 

I don't understand what you mean. By what RJ said, it sounds like the harder and faster he goes, the more he has to fight understeer. The harder and faster I go, the more I fight oversteer. Right?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by White98LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't understand what you mean. By what RJ said, it sounds like the harder and faster he goes, the more he has to fight understeer. The harder and faster I go, the more I fight oversteer. Right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I had to read it four times, but yeah, my mistake.

I think that's a consequence of the use... come into some a slalom too fast, get a little behind and un-smooth and you spin. Steady state turning (carousel, skidpad, etc.) will bring out the understeer in a FWD econobox though, especially if you come in too hot for something like that.

 

True. Today's course and conditions were perfect for inducing understeer... wet, changing surfaces, lots of slaloms and corners where you don't have much chance to brake in a straight line so you end up trail-braking. I guess what kept coming back into my mind is how the hell I would have been able to get around the course quickly at all with some of the more common rear-biased setups. Hopefully within the next week or two I'll get it corner-weighted and know the real weight distribution.

Whatever it is, today was damn fun. Too bad I forgot to charge my vidcam.

 

neutral, loose, and tailhappy are highly subjective terms.

One person's loose is pushing like a pig to someone else.

 

You have to agree with that!!

I don't feel trailbraking in the rain is effective at all. Big swaybars are a dissadvantage in the rain as well. Weight transfer needs to be slower. I try to brake in a straight line in every corner (where possible).