No, this isn't another thread about STS turbo! LoL...

I have been toying with the idea of doing a remote mount turbo setup on my new project car. Don't waste your time trying to convince me not to do it, I'm not 100% that I am, but I want to weigh out the pros and cons.

I have experience with a few remote mount turbo systems, I used to live near STS turbo and visited them frequently to pick up parts for my old turbo system and to talk with the CEO who was a friend of mine. I rode in a few STS vehicles and knew a guy that worked there who owned a remote turbo CRX.

Anyways, my new project is going to be an 88-91 Civic sedan. I would like to try a remote turbo system for a few reasons.

- There's a TON of room back there on a 88-91 Civic sedan.
- I could keep AC and PS
- It would be less expensive than a traditional setup
- I have NEVER seen an 88-91 Civic sedan with a remote mounted turbo, I might be the first and only!

My question is this!

?? Which turbo should I use??

I am thinking something fairly small like a 14b, this will be on a stock d16z6 and I want to run 10-12psi of boost.

I am going to keep the intake piping to a small diameter, like 1.5"-2" so reduce the lag. And, I am not going to use a FMIC, I will see how the intake temps are without one. Supposedly the air cools quite a bit traveling up to the front under the car.

Because I only want to run 12psi or less of boost and I want to reduce the lag as much as possible, I don't want to run a turbo like the 60 trim .48/.60 that I had on my last setup. Even traditionally mounted I didn't reach 12psi until about 4k, I know that would be exaggerated if the same turbo were mounted in the back.

So, what's your oppinion on this? I know I should go with something fairly small to compensate for the added piping, but which will not poop out up top at 12psi.

What do you think? T25? 14b? T3 .48/.42?

 

First, I'm gonna say you should at least go to a header and a 2.5" exhaust all the way back. If you have to have a cat, then get a high flow one. 2nd, I'd heatwrap your exhaust piping all the way back (will decrease spool time because less heat energy is dissapated through the piping).

One thing that has me concerned is the oiling of the turbo. IMO there is no way you could return the oil to the oil pan with out having restriction problems. I personally would do my own seperate reservoir and pump for the turbo so it has its own supply of self contained lubrication (not to mention its one less thing to heat up the turbo).

Lastly, have you considered even just a sidemount IC in the rear or something like that.

Also I think the 14b would be an excellent turbo to start with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Unsivil_audio &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First, I'm gonna say you should at least go to a header and a 2.5" exhaust all the way back. If you have to have a cat, then get a high flow one. 2nd, I'd heatwrap your exhaust piping all the way back (will decrease spool time because less heat energy is dissapated through the piping).

One thing that has me concerned is the oiling of the turbo. IMO there is no way you could return the oil to the oil pan with out having restriction problems. I personally would do my own seperate reservoir and pump for the turbo so it has its own supply of self contained lubrication (not to mention its one less thing to heat up the turbo).

Lastly, have you considered even just a sidemount IC in the rear or something like that.

Also I think the 14b would be an excellent turbo to start with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I already have a DC sports header, a "high flow cat" (resonator), and a 2.25" exhaust lined up for it.

Last time I talked to the guys at STS they said that large exhaust piping can actually hurt performance because it slows the exhaust flow down. The smaller the exhaust piping the more velocity the gas has. I think 2.25" should be just about right.

About the oiling system. I am either going to create my own return system with an electric pump, or buy just the return system from STS. The system they use pumps the oil out of the turbo via an electric pump which has a warning light connected to it. If the pump slows or fails the light comes on and you can shut the car off before you damage the turbo.

The STS system pumps the oil back up though the oil cap onto the top of the engine, so you don't have to tap the oil pan. Depending on how expensive it is to buy their system I might just do that.

It probably wouldn't be that hard to make my own. Just hook up an electric pump and feed the oil back into the oil pan. The tricky part would be the warning light, which I think is necessary. I wouldn't want that pump to fail on me and not know about it.

P.S. I'm also thinking about routing the piping up through the stock intake box. So, looking at the engine bay you would see nothing that indicates it's turbocharged.

 

Here's what their oil return looks like. It actually just looks like a plastic oil cap with a fitting drilled into it. Which would be REALLY easy to do and would save me the time of tapping the oil pan...





Hmmm....

 

i read the article in a magazine once and was pretty shocked at the whole thing.

go for it.

if i were you, i'd look into their oil return pump kit. that warning light is my main reason.

get a turbo thats inexpensive (14b or small t3) and see how it works out for you.

 

Can someone identify what kind of pump this is?







Looks to me like an electric pump with some sort of pressure sensor hooked up to one side, I'm assuming that's what the warning light is based off of...

Any insight into this setup?

 

I wonder if 'sucking' the oil out of the turbo is bad?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can someone identify what kind of pump this is?







Looks to me like an electric pump with some sort of pressure sensor hooked up to one side, I'm assuming that's what the warning light is based off of...

Any insight into this setup? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I will get you the part number and where to order, since I just built a remote mount for my neighbors 3rd Gen Camaro. I know the pump is around $100.00

Here is shot of the build in progress.




Modified by TurboElements.com at 12:12 PM 9/29/2005

 

how do you make sure you dont suck water up when it rains?

Im interested to see how this does. There has been alot of controversy on this type of setup. Keep us updated

 

Tilton makes a nice electric pump used for rear-end coolers on circle track cars.

 

We have drove it in a down pour and through puddles and I was worried it would cause damage, but there was none.

The compressor wheel will atomize any water that does enter the system and use it to cool the charge and since the turbo never sees high temps there is nothing to hurt it.

There is now also a splash shield around the air filter for added protection.

 

Thanks for the info on that pump.

Is it a water pump? Fuel pump? What is it made for?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboElements.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We have drove it in a down pour and through puddles and I was worried it would cause damage, but there was none.

The compressor wheel will atomize any water that does enter the system and use it to cool the charge and since the turbo never sees high temps there is nothing to hurt it.

There is now also a splash shield around the air filter for added protection.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did you install an STS kit, or fabricate your own? Did you use the pump from STS? How did it turn out?

As far as avoiding water goes, I will probably use a filter shield like this:



Along with a K&N jacket thing (can't remember what they are called).

With a shield and a filter jacket I think the only way I could cause damage would be to totally submerge the filter in water. I will just avoid huge puddles, I do that anyways so that shouldn't be much of a problem.

I will also most likely be using a $100 dsm turbo anyways, so if something does go wrong there's really no harm done.

I looked under the back of a friends 91 Sedan today and there is plenty of room to do a turbo back there. All I would really have to do is cut the muffler off right after it bends towards the driver's side and weld on a 90 degree elbow and a flange onto that, then I would need one more 90 for the downpipe and another for the air intake... similar to this setup:

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I will also most likely be using a $100 dsm turbo anyways, so if something does go wrong there's really no harm done.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its not the turbo you should be worried about. If the turbo sucks in enough water it can hydrolock the motor.

Other guy said he has no problems with it though so no worries.

 

It is actually a oil pump, but I don't know what it is real use is for.

I laid most of it out for him and after he decided his welding skills were sub par I went back and rewelded everything for him.

The precharger is on there now and the shield I made looks like that one.

It is really inexpensive to put one together and it is surpisingly really responsive, fully boost on a T3 Super 60 by 2600rpm 5-6psi.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the info on that pump.

Is it a water pump? Fuel pump? What is it made for?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is for circulating gear oil through a cooler. Mocal makes one also http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/mocal1.htm

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nfn15037 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is for circulating gear oil through a cooler. Mocal makes one also http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/mocal1.htm </TD></TR></TABLE>

Awesome

What kind of sensor do you think they use? And, how should the oil pump be configured? Should I just wire it to come on with the ignition?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Awesome

What kind of sensor do you think they use? And, how should the oil pump be configured? Should I just wire it to come on with the ignition? </TD></TR></TABLE>

probably a hobbs switch, so when oil pressure drops below a certain limit a light comes on... just wirethe pump so that whenever the motor is running the pump is running

 

wow... this sounds like a fun little project. It looks like you might be able to pull it off for fairly cheap too.

 

In that one picture with the t-fitting, it looks like that's a regular oil sending unit attached to it. I assume that when it looses oil pressure, the unit touches ground and the light illuminates.

 

Anything bigger than a 14B or a T25 and you will have helacious lag. For the amount you'll spend on the custom fab and a pump you might as well go buy a used drag mani or a spoolinperformance log or something like that and go mount i in the engine bay like it's SUPPOSED to be.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboEGhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anything bigger than a 14B or a T25 and you will have helacious lag. For the amount you'll spend on the custom fab and a pump you might as well go buy a used drag mani or a spoolinperformance log or something like that and go mount i in the engine bay like it's SUPPOSED to be.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The last civic I built had a turbo up front.

This kind of setup will allow me to retain AC and PS, with a d16z6 in an EF engine bay. There is not a whole lot of room to work with in front of the engine. But that's not even the point.

With this setup I don't have to buy a turbo manifold $$, a FMIC $$, and I don't have to fabricate a downpipe either.

I'm going to make a spreadsheet with a cost breakdown to see if it really is cheaper than a traditional turbo system or if it will be more expensive due to the extra oil lines, oil pump, and extra piping required.

Either way, I think it would be fun to try. I'm not trying to break any records or have the fastest civic out there anyways. And I'm not concerned about lag. I prefer to drive around out of boost 90% of the time anyways.

I read an article earlier this afternoon about a guy doing a remote turbo on his Cavalier, he fabricated the whole thing from start to finish in just a few hours. The simplicity of doing a turbo like this is what really got me thinking about doing it.

 

damn that looks crazy i read about that bad boy a day or two ago i wonder what kinda of numbers you get and how it runs

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With this setup I don't have to buy a turbo manifold $$, a FMIC $$, and I don't have to fabricate a downpipe either.

I'm going to make a spreadsheet with a cost breakdown to see if it really is cheaper than a traditional turbo system or if it will be more expensive due to the extra oil lines, oil pump, and extra piping required.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

All I have to say is good luck making this cheaper. Any decent oil scavenge pump is going to be in the 200-300 dollar range. That's atleast 200 you don't have to spend for a front mount turbo, cheaper charge piping, and the money you can save by selling your header will pay for a turbo manifold. You don't need an intercooler for this setup, but there's nothing about it that makes it special compared to a front mount setup, you can skip an intercooler on a front mounted turbo to.

This setup makes sense on an LS1 camaro where there is zero room in the engine bay and you can't just bolt one manifold onto your motor, run a cheap junkyard turbo, and have some fun with it. On a Honda you can do a front mount for cheaper, still keep AC/PS with a ton of manifolds, and have better boost response, why would you not want that? Don't try and reinvent the wheel, if this were a good setup for Hondas, STS would be selling the kits by now and making a lot of money off them like they are the Camaro and truck kits.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboEGhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

All I have to say is good luck making this cheaper. Any decent oil scavenge pump is going to be in the 200-300 dollar range. That's atleast 200 you don't have to spend for a front mount turbo, cheaper charge piping, and the money you can save by selling your header will pay for a turbo manifold. You don't need an intercooler for this setup, but there's nothing about it that makes it special compared to a front mount setup, you can skip an intercooler on a front mounted turbo to.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've been looking at pumps and they can be found for less than $100.

I'm not here to argue with the efficiency of design or my reasons for wanting to do it. I have already had a traditionally mounted turbo system. I've heard all the arguments against this type of system many many times before.

There are TONS of theads about why remote mounted turbos suck. If you want to participate in one of those go ahead. I made this thread for positive input and information, not to debate the pros and cons of a remote mounted turbo setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I've been looking at pumps and they can be found for less than $100.

I'm not here to argue with the efficiency of design or my reasons for wanting to do it. I have already had a traditionally mounted turbo system. I've heard all the arguments against this type of system many many times before.

There are TONS of theads about why remote mounted turbos suck. If you want to participate in one of those go ahead. I made this thread for positive input and information, not to debate the pros and cons of a remote mounted turbo setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Positive input: A 100 dollar scavenge pump will die, just like the first ones STS shipped with their kits, just like the ones Incon shipped with all their kits, and just like all the ones turbo engineering shipped with all their kits.

Cheap pump = blown pump, and often = blown turbo. If you're gonna do the rear mount setup you can't cheap out on the scavenge pump.