So post all your questions.

My Opinion and Impression is summed up by a simple sentence: The addition of the ATS 4.929 Final Drive and Toda Flywheel makes my R more driveable, enjoyable and a whole bunch more fun.

I swapped my stock R rims/tires back on to really play around today and test it all out. Needless to say I was extremely pleased. One of the things I noticed and liked was the way the throttle felt when I blipped, revved it and matched the gears at all RPM. The flywheel alone is a great mod. It makes for easier shifting better rev matching and faster throttle response. I never lost it and stalled, and it no longer bogs.

To answer what I think of the FD, I have to ask in general,

Why did the boys at Honda/Acura even downgrade the FD from the JDM FD to the USDM?

I really don't understand this decision on their part. I mean with the higher ratio, it is a stronger pull in every gear. It never bogs, even if you have a higher gear than required like cruising in 5th and you slow up, with the USDM/FD you bog. With this FD you can actually cruise in 5th, and if need be downshift to 4th and pull hard. I think we all would have appreciated the JDM final. Too bad it was omitted from our cars.

The ATS FD off the line in 1st is so strong that if you aren't careful you'll spin and chew up your tires. I actually lowered my front pressures from 37 to35 for more traction. Temp near me was about 50 degrees so creep was not a big issue. I can understand that traction alone might have been a deciding factor for the Honda factory decision with our FD's.

But, conversly I no longer have to rev higher just to get the car rolling off the line. In a race I would not need to rev to 4,500RPM anymore to get that holeshot. It will go off the line very nicely at like 1,200 to 1,500 RPM and will be strong at anything above 2K. If I even tried to rev and drop at 4,500 like I could in the past I would just provide a smoke show for all to see and need new tires alot sooner.

I've seen it posted like this before and since I agree I will list it similarly.

Feeling in gears:

1st feels strong as Hell and since traction is now more of an issue I will consider stickier tires and maybe even an aftermarket 1.5way LSD.

2nd feels like OEM 1st and will also spin the tires if you aren't careful.

3rd feels like OEM 2nd and is strong, I like this for a tight corner and even a tight sweeper. The rear starts to give a little when I drive it hard, but I do have the rear tire pressures at 36 and like it to rotate more easily.

4th feels like OEM 3rd and pulls very hard.

5th feels like it pulls only slightly less than the OEM 4th did. It is alot more useable and does not interfere with my highway usage.

RPM in 5th at 70MPH is 4,250
at 75MPH is 4,500
at 80MPH is 4,800

- all are indicated on the stock R Tach which I have recently discovered is pretty inaccurate, true RPM is actually lower than indicated on the Tach, near redline as much as 400 RPM.

In general it makes the car feel much stronger and useable. I know that the 2 or 3 camps have pros and cons but, these Mods fit my needs very well and I am very satisifed. After spending the whole day since 11 AM driving it around in all sorts of circumstances from twisties to highway to local stop and go traffic, I have to say that I am pleased! I will enjoy and appreciate this for Auto-X and my future track events.

For those who say you'll top out too soon, I say Blahhh! I can't imagine needing to go above 140 on any public roads and I am not hitting any track soon that'll need me to hit that either. Besides, by that speed you are nearing the natural drag limiter and when I am ready to try those speeds I am investing in a REAL functional rear wing. If you need those few MPH more you could always get some light weight 16" rims...

For those who are concerned with RPM and highway driving. I say again Blahhh! I listed the above numbers for RPM and speed. Thats what I experienced. Besides almost all of us live for the scream of Vtec and just cruising at 5K with the FD does not feel like cruising at 5K with the stock FD in 4th gear. It is just not as dragging and whiney.

One observation with a side effect. You will hear a slight whir, like a Super Charger spooling when you slow up in gear. To me No Big Deal! I'm a purist, I like purpose built machines and I really dig all the sounds that I hear from my car when I drive. I enjoy the music I play with my R.

ATS 4.929 FD

Toda FW

(Disclaimer, I did not experience as drastic of a change as I thought with the FD and FW until I really started to get on it and play.) It is not a Holy Sh*t mod, it's not a Turbo or SC or NOS. It won't blow you away with ridiculous amounts of raw power. In fact it will just sharpen the R as a scalpul more for carving up those twisties and tracks. If it's good enough for Foo then it's good enough for me.

Thanks to: Rodney "you're a good friend", Yasu "owner of Racing Craft", David "R&D, my Toda connection" , Anthony "did the install at his shop the Meccanic shop north" and to my Wife for putting up with my consuming hobby.

Ask away I'm here to help...

A.





[Modified by 1GreyTeg, 3:16 PM 3/3/2002]

 

wow!...good, long informative post...hope you hit the tracks soon to tell us about some of your actual gains when racing!

 

NICE POST MAN

I just can't wait anymore I have the exedy clutch, ATS final, and toda FW on my floor in my room and I'm waiting to install it. AHHH I just can't wait AHHH I'm going nuts

 

sweet!!

Where did u get your final drive? and how much was it?

Also--what do you have done to youre car? I'd love to pick up the ATS FD...

 

yeah good question, what else to done to your car????? I heard that with these mods (which I have be not installed) the car revs likea bike. Is that true?

I got my fw and exedy clutch from RandD it was $740 (on special, but I think the special is over)

I got my ATS from RandD for $720 (on special, but I think thats over also)


[Modified by hooptie157, 12:54 AM 3/3/2002]

 

How much does the ATS 4.92FD run me? Sounds like something I need.

 

common man spill it whered you get your fd?

 

great review!!!

 

Hit the link in my SIG to Racing Craft, thats where I got it, from the owner Yasu. My price was about the same as all of you that have it already. I got the Toda FW from Dave at R&D also in my SIG, both are great guys.

Currently I have:

Comptech Icebox with their intake pipe
Spoon 4-2-1 header
Carsound 94006 HF cat
ATS 4.929 FD
Toda flywheel

I dynoed 171.8 &.9 HP to the wheels a few weeks ago without the flywheeel and on steel wheels and snow tires. I'm sure I'll do better next time when I start to tune the cams.

And 3 sets of wheels and tires, for road, track and snow.

A.

 

Good to hear that sound is normal. I thought it was kind of weird when I heard it on mine. Good post, enjoy the mods!

 

congrats 1grey, i was thinkin of the ATS FD also. i got the JUN ultralight weightFW but thats down the road a bit still.

 

Kinda OT, but i just found this funny, in my Accord in 5th gear @ 100mph, i am 'only' turning 4000rpms, gotta love the family car!

 

Theres no doubt that an Accord has power and will do the 100MPH, I just rode in a V-6 last Tuesday from Atlanta to Alabama.

What matters is the extreme rapid acceleration to 100MPH and up to at least 140 MPH that the R has with the FD.

You'd be cruisin at 100 in said Accord and I'd walk all over that to my top speed. I'd wave in my rearview though, Cause I'm a friendly guy!

This not a flaming post or a who is faster but, just another comparison to put things Back into perspective.

A.

PS BTW, this was my 1000th post!


[Modified by 1GreyTeg, 8:41 PM 3/2/2002]

 

uh, i never said i would get thier faster or anything, just comparing gear ratios, actually how different they are

 

Understood back atcha... Now stop flirting, my wife would be jealous!

A.

 

Anton - thanks for a great review. Every one of these ATS FD is making me very indecisive about FD upgrade...

So, here's an interesting question for you and everyone else at H-T though... here goes (the listed party can express their own experience, but I did not specify who you are. ).
1. Friend A has JDM 4.785 + ligthend stock FW + i/h/e (~172 whp).
2. Friend B has ATS 4.929 + stock FW + Toda B package + i/h ~(195 whp).

These two did a highway pull (3,4,5) and ATS FD pulled on JDM FD... but apparently it was "only" 1 or 2 car lengths through each gear 'til the redline. What's more, if they were to shift through 3rd, then 4th, then into 5th, the margin of pull is still 2 to 3 car length. Now, when Friend B didn't have the ATS FD, the results were similar.

1. What I am trying to get at is... if ATS FD goes through the powerband so quick, you're in essense short-changing the acceleration. I mean, wouldn't we want to be in our powerband as long as possible? I would love to zip/rev through 1,500rpm - 5,000 rpm, but zipping through 5,000 rpm - redline doesn't seem to be the best option.

2. Also, since ATS makes full 1-5 gears... should we really be looking at the whole set to take advantage of ATS FD? (I know, the full 1-5 gear set is $$$.)

3. Any comments? I would love to see how two stock ITR (one with ATS FD and the other with JDM FD) really fair on autoX, tracks and 1/4mi. Any volunteers for a write up? (Which brings up an idea... mayb we should have a comparison section of all mods. heh. )

 

that's fine and dandy (plus obvious), but that's not what he asked

"I would love to see how two stock ITR (one with ATS FD and the other with JDM FD) really fair on autoX..."

 

Thank you sir,

MHO:

Gearing is never the answer to combatting HP/TQ. The B's alone will make an R pull a Hell of alot harder. The FD just gets it into the sweet spot quicker and will pull harder, but, the FD will NOT pull harder than just the aftermarket cams alone, especially something like the Toda B's.

I, and most choose the FD for it's more user friendly gearing and it's ability to negate those low RPM bogging and 5th gear lul. It is stronger all through the gears and definately pulls harder when Vtec engages. You must understand that without the cams and a fairly stock R like mine, you will not blow through the gears and RPM so fast that you will not be able to use it. But, rather make more use of the bottom end of the RPM all the way to the redline.

It does not just fly up top so fast, this may be a misconception and a reason others may choose not to do this. Others with this mod need to come and speak up and explain more than previously when relating to just rowing through the gears to catch up to the car. thats just not the case.

What it does do is work like a block and tackle or a pulley system that will multiply the power and it's delivery. It may be explained like a motorcycle revving but, thats a little drastic in my opinion. Yes it revs faster but, thats the flywheel. The feeling of the FD is noticeable but, I can't even possibly think it would be detrimental to performance from 0-140 MPH!

In a nutshell, it makes the car more driveable.

And switching to the ATS 1-5th gears will seriously effect your top speed, I think it's listed as 107 or 114 MPH or something low like that with the full ATS gearset?

Find me a close to stock R and I'll test it, this Auto-X season I'll be sure to post results for comparison.

Oh, and the driver is what wins the races so, I'm sure a better driver than I could beat me with a stock R, FD and gearing.

A.




[Modified by 1GreyTeg, 8:03 AM 3/3/2002]

 

good info .ats is quickly moving up my list for the next mod. good luck

 

I fully agree that stock 4.4 FD w/ USDM 5th is nasty on the freeway. I was thinking maybe JDM 4.785 FD + '00-'01 Si 5th (shorter gearing than USDM ITR 5th) would do the trick without going to ATS FD...

Thanks... it must've been the Toda B's that caused it to fly through the rpm range so quick, when it was coupled with ATS FD. I've gotta see a stock ATS FD to see a real affect it has normally.

Yeah, that would be an overkill, but I was just getting to see if ATS gearset would be finely tuned for it's FD. I am wondering if ATS FD is a good match for stock USDM 1-5 gearset... and, from the sounds of it, it is!

looking foward to your results.

 

Great info ..I plan on doing Toda Bs soon..Would i be better off without the FD then? My car will be used mostly for drag..

 

I think FD upgrade is worth it for Toda B's from the reaction I've seen from my friend. However, the question I still have is if his Toda B package + ATS FD is better/worse than B's + JDM FD. <shrug> I just couldn't believe how quickly he pulled through the VTEC range... it must've been ~2 sec or less. After riding in his car, my stock R motor felt like reving like a SOHC Civic.

 

I think i'm gonna give it a shot...I'd like to do some testing of my own. My car is still stock with only AEM CAI, though the Spoon 4-2-1 and Carsound cat are on the way..Still haven't been to the track with this R yet. I don't know about Autox, but we can at least get some numbers from the 1/4 mile if i make a run before and after the install

 

My suggestion if you are planning on doing the B's is to YES go ahead with the FD but, you may need to seriously consider a real 1.5 way LSD fr better traction and of course some Super Sticky Drag Slicks.

I drove another car with the B's and 4.929 FD and ATS LSD. It is a Friggin Monster.

A.

 

"After riding in his car, my stock R motor felt like reving like a SOHC Civic. "

Oh geez I totally agree, and I already had I & H. I thought my car was strong, heh heh heh. Rodneys car on the other hand is just Raw!

I think that traction is more of an issue With the B's & ATS/FD, and that flying through the gears is a trait of the cams and FD so if It was me? I'd still do the ATS/FD and the B's together. I just rode with him this afternoon and although he feels that Now he would want a longer 1st gear. I still say do 'em both and just raise the redline since the upgraded powertrain can handle the higher RPM.

I drove for about 3 hours on and off today, just feeling out my car. It was a blast, just so much fun! The car just rips like an animal and has No trouble passing almost everyone and anything on the highway. Well, except for that one sport bike. We played a little and he seemed impressed, then he gave me a and just took off... I was humble.

After today I am a Serious fan and proponant of this FD/FW combo.

A.