would an ITR crank fit in a B17a1 Block?

if so, can I use my rods and pistons from my block? would it be just a straight sway?

would that increase displacement to 1.8L???

anyone done this?

 

would a 94+up GSR crank work as well???

 

bump?

ITR & 94+up GSR crank work in my B17 block with my pistons and rods????

 

ITR crank = '94+ GSR crank.

and secondly, the B17A has a shorter deck height than the GSR/ITR/LS/CRV motors. so no, you can't just swap in a GSR/ITR crank and rods. it won't run, and if you try, you'll break the pistons and the head into worthlessness. you're better off either just getting a GSR/ITR shortblock or forget about it. .1L isn't that big a deal, and Hondas don't make that much torque unless you're talking F/H-series or K-series anyways, and even then it's only relatively good torque. hondas make power by revving not by being large.

 

a ctr crank will work

 

a CTR is a destroked ITR, same block height.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95lstegman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ITR crank = '94+ GSR crank.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

ITR crank is fully counterbalanced (8 weights) whereas the GSR crank is only 4 weights. Makes for a little bit better stability at higher RPMs.

But I'd keep a hold of the 1.7. Those are pretty rare and from what I've read (but have no other knowledge of) they have a better rod ratio than the 1.8 and the 1.6.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crx_88_si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a CTR is a destroked ITR, same block height.</TD></TR></TABLE>
wrong by omission. a CTR is a destroked ITR/GSR as is the B16. however, both the B16A and B16B (CTR) have the same 172.5mm deck height, which is also shared by the B17A. LS/GSR/ITR/CRV have a 182.5mm deck height. so you could use a CTR (or any B16) crank with CTR (or any B16) rods, although the CTR parts are balanced better and the alloy of the rods is stronger and more fatigue-resistant. however, then you'd be going down to 1.6L, which i think is not such a great idea unless your 1.7L bottom is F'ed.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ThePro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ITR crank is fully counterbalanced (8 weights) whereas the GSR crank is only 4 weights. Makes for a little bit better stability at higher RPMs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
how can an inline 4-cylinder have only 4 counterweights? that would be like having only 2 crank throws, which would be **** for performance. hello, 4000rpm redline or 75lb crankshaft. all Honda 4-cylinders have 8 counterweights because there is one on each side of each connecting rod. however, some are balanced better than others (ITR/CTR).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ThePro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But I'd keep a hold of the 1.7. Those are pretty rare and from what I've read (but have no other knowledge of) they have a better rod ratio than the 1.8 and the 1.6.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the 1.7 has a great rod:stroke ratio, but the 1.6 has a better one. that is, assuming you want a really high rod:stroke ratio. some people don't want that. they are rare, although not so sought-after since it only makes 1.7L.

 

thanks all sounds good.

i was just wanting to know if it would work.. i figured if it worked, it would be cheaper than buying a used ITR crank for a few bucks, rather then spending $1000 plus for a .1-.2 L from crower or someone..


my motor is running great right now.. 237,700 miles.... stock.. wanting to rebuild in the near future, and just getting all my answers now.

 

I dont understand how the crank increases displacement

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h4x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont understand how the crank increases displacement </TD></TR></TABLE>


you are joking right?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h4x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont understand how the crank increases displacement </TD></TR></TABLE>
well, let:
d = displacement in cc's (divide by 1000 to get it in Liters)
s = stroke in cm
b = bore in cm
c = number of cylinders
pi ~ 3.14153

d = [(s x {b/2}^2 x pi) x c]

so, by increasing the stroke, you can increase the total displacement of the engine.

not only this, but due to other physics involving the rotating assembly, it will make the torque peak come earlier in the RPM band, all else (such as head characteristics) being equal. what this means for LS/VTEC vs. '94+ GSR is that if you bored at GSR to get 1834cc like an LS, and used a GSR head on the LS/VTEC, then the LS/VTEC will exhibit a lower torque peak than the GSR. since the GSR has a higher torque peak, it will make more peak power, but it will be further up in the RPM band. furthermore, the power made down low by the LS/VTEC will be nominally higher than the low end power of the GSR thanks again to cylinder filling and changing volumetric efficiency (some of that physics stuff i mentioned earlier). this is the argument for LS/VTEC. keep in mind that this scenario is never perfect since changing bottom ends means retuning the ECU, and then everything isn't equal.

also, keep in mind that taking an LS bottom end and revving it to 8000rpm is possible and indeed, if done properly, can be quite reliable, but it is not what it was designed for. you are increasing piston velocity and acceleration values which puts stresses on the connecting rod orders higher than what they were designed to tolerate. you are also increasing cylinder sidewall loading and actual cylinder travel and the reliability influences those have (head gasket, cylinder bore distortion, etc.). just keep these in mind when stroking a motor and build it right. Honda designs their parts with the utmost in reliability, so they can take more than they're built for, but don't push it. do your research and build according to how comfortable you are with the risks involved.


Modified by 95lstegman at 11:29 PM 9/27/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95lstegman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">both the B16A and B16B (CTR) have the same 172.5mm deck height, which is also shared by the B17A. LS/GSR/ITR/CRV have a 182.5mm deck height.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You sir are incorrect. The B16B uses a P72 block with the same deck height as the larger B series motors. It uses longer rods and taller pistons to compensate (which is one reason why PCT pistons give such rediculous compression numbers). The B16A and the B17A both use a PR3 block.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kendall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You sir are incorrect. The B16B uses a P72 block with the same deck height as the larger B series motors. It uses longer rods and taller pistons to compensate (which is one reason why PCT pistons give such rediculous compression numbers). The B16A and the B17A both use a PR3 block.</TD></TR></TABLE>
DAMN IT really? when the F did this happen? i swear i've always thought the B16B was a hot B16A not a destroked B18C! damn! but thanks for the correction, and sorry to CRX_88_SI

 

[QUOTE=95lstegman]
how can an inline 4-cylinder have only 4 counterweights? that would be like having only 2 crank throws, which would be **** for performance. hello, 4000rpm redline or 75lb crankshaft. all Honda 4-cylinders have 8 counterweights because there is one on each side of each connecting rod. however, some are balanced better than others (ITR/CTR).
[QUOTE]

Whoops. I was wrong... Here is what I should have typed.

The crankshaft is also made with highly rigid steel, increasing it's fatigue limit 25% over the GS-R's crankshaft. Two additional balancing weights were added to create a fully counter-weighted (8 weight) crankshaft improving high-speed balance by 20%. The crankshaft and connecting rods must assembled together by hand in order to maintain such precision.

Sorry. The GS-R has six instead of 8.

 

i don't see how it could have six, either. please furnish a pic b/c i think every crank i've ever seen has 8 counterweights. even LS. b/c if it didn't i would think it would be impossible to engineer a crankshaft. i know the metallurgy is correct since almost every little aspect of the Type-R's metallurgy is different; crank, rods, pistons, valves and valve springs, etc. i remember last time you posted about this i went and looked at some crankshafts and they all had 8 counterweights. but that was a while ago; maybe my memory is bum but it was only several days.

EDIT: okay, so i checked some cranks. there are a *FEW* cranks i've seen with as few as 4 counterweights. now that i've seen it i guess i understand how they engineered it, but no wonder the redline was so low. GSR's, ITR's, LS's, and even D16's have 8 counterweights. maybe early GSR's or early B16's had 6 counterweights or something.

 

if you wanted to use it, youd need custom rods and/or pistons..

a friend of mine used a b17 crank in a b16 block using forged b16 rods and custom pistons...

so you could do it, but youd have to have some custom stuff done and the cost:power ratio isnt good enough for me..

itd be easier/cheaper to get a b18 block...