if i only had money to eather swap to h22a no turbo or turbo the f22b1, what would be the smarter choice?

along with swaping u have to upgrade all the **** like shock/struts?, axels, clutch, breaks?

 

More power under the hood will require more stopping power! ...axles should come along with the engine.....
...now...
if you get a h22.... you will want to turbo it right????.. and that will be money for the H22... and then... money for the turbo for the H22...
...and... if you just turbo your f22.... you will be all set... right??????
...well... I'm just guessing.... ...

 

do you want raw power or reliablity?

 

boost is fun....h22's are fun as well...but will never have the fun that boost offers so willingly LOL

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fw190bvi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you want raw power or reliablity?</TD></TR></TABLE>

What ^^^ said. Anyway correct me if im wrong but if you boost an H22A it will require more work than to boost the f22b1. F22B1 should be setup for boost as for H22A if you wanna run pretty high boost levels you will have to resleeve the block etc etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAiL05 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What ^^^ said. Anyway correct me if im wrong but if you boost an H22A it will require more work than to boost the f22b1. F22B1 should be setup for boost as for H22A if you wanna run pretty high boost levels you will have to resleeve the block etc etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Turbo F22 will give u more power than a bolt on n/a h22a but will be a little less reliable. It will also be cheaper to turbo the f22b depending on where and in what condition you buy your parts.

Both ways you should change your clutch, exedy stage 1 with the h22a and exedy stage 2 with the f22 turbo would be nice choices. Both easily streetable.

Axles wont necessarily need changing but the halfshaft that comes with the h22a wont accept the accord axels so you will either need to use the accord halfshaft or get prelude axles. I recommend switching to preludes.

Also depending on year of h22a you buy you may need to do some wire harness modifications and regardless u have to run some extra wires for the swap.

 

Turbo your F22. It will cost less and make more power. Do it right and it will be just as reliable as the swap.

 

you also have to think about where he lives!! cuz if hes in cali, then turbo will sux. everytime you get pulled over and your car some what resembles a modified veh most likley they will ask to pop your hood. then youre in for it. if you do a swap it will cost alot more to do a legal swap and get it approved by the state ref. so if he lived in cali wut would the options be?

 

move

 

if i lived in cali, i would move to fl and then boost the f22. i dont know about being a smart idea, but it sure is great.

o yea, h22 are ok too.

 

Generally, it comes down to how you're gonna drive your ride.
If you've a standard trans, and enjoy stirring the stick, the H22 would be the way to go. You have to remember that with the Vtec programming, the Vtec protion of it doesn't kick in until you reach somewhere between 4800 and 5200 rpm. Below that and you're no more than a 2.2l twin cam. So you've gotta be willing to spin the S...T out of it to make horsepower.
If you've an automatic trans, and enjoy cruising and occasionally blowing off obnoxious Ultima drivers, a turbo is your ticket. If done properly, it's an "install it and forget it" proposition. And it doesn't take all manner of boost pressures to have fun (and keep the engine together).

It doesn't come down so much as to what's smarter, it's more a matter of how you want to use it.

P

 

if you boost an auto, the tranny is gona die pretty quick, unless u get a manual valve body or something, but that costs a pretty penny

 

What?? Please give some examples of turbo horror stories, specifically auto installations.
I'm curious as to the "or something" you're refering to.

There are many examples of Auto H22a's out there that that regularly pump 200 hp. And how about 240hp auto v6's? Different trans? shift points, maybe but the internals IMHO are the same. If Honda thought their auto trans couldn't take 240/270 hp, do you think they'd warranty the $%#@* thing. Come on now.

P

 

if u boost a car with an auto the tranny cant handle the extra power u can install a cooler but eventually it will go out just not as quick h22 swap would be nice but if u ever want mroe boosting is expensive because u have to get iron sleves. the f22 handles boost really well.

 

so ur telling me that all F trannies are the same?

and tell me where in the world u heard that they can handle 260+hp? maybe the newer accords, but go ahead and boost an auto, then break it, then take it to honda and see if the warranty is still valid. they are warantied for normal diving conditions, not boosted ones.

if you havent heard of autos breakin when boosted, then thats because most ppl dont boost them much.

 

i would do an auto to manual swap first then it depends on what kind of power you want to make in the end, you could do the f22 bottom end h23 head and tubo it even a 14b (tiny turbo)would give you around 200hp a bigger turbo = more power. H22 are great i just think they are a little over rated.

 

You know, you're absolutely right. I'm going to disregard all those Turbo Mustangs Turbo Z's, Buick T Types and eveything else ever turbocharged by a major manufacturer; cuz OBVIOUSLY they didn't know what they were doing attaching automatic transmissions to these cars.!

Let's look at what I said previously:
"If you've an automatic trans, and enjoy cruising [Not Drag Racing] and occasionally blowing off obnoxious Ultima drivers, a turbo is your ticket. If done properly, it's an "install it and forget it" proposition. And it doesn't take all manner of boost pressures to have fun (and keep the engine together). "

I've heard of good results with systems of 8/9 pounds of boost.
If you abuse it or start futzing with boost pressures, of couse it's gonna break.

 

why would u boost and not abuse? theres no point in building an engine then not using it for what u made it for, unless of course u just have money to spend.

oh, but im sure those manufacturers made those trannies capable of handling boost. Honda makes trannies to handle as much as the stock engine puts out, and then some, but not that much. sure it can handle boost, for a while, but it will get fucked up a lot sooner than the engine, unless you have a crappy *** tune.

dude, all those cars ur mentioning were built for performance, and so therefore making the trannies capable of handling boost. ur comparing apples and oranges. now are u gona tell me honda makes oem parts for performance?

 

Wrong, The Fords used box stock T4"s and GM used Th350's for the T Types. But for the sake of this "conversation" I'll point out that the TH350's were built to accomodate both L6, V6 and small block V8 applications. Same hubs, shafts, sun gears etc etc etc. The only accomodation made for high power apps was an additional clutch plate in the direct drive clutch pack.

[QUOTE]
"why would u boost and not abuse?"
Maybe so that I could enjoy it for more than a few days, and Yes, it can be a kick to build something just for the sake of proving you can do it.
Why so hostile to automatics? Doesn't fit the image?

I can only hope Honda someday incorporates a Performance Parts Division much like GM and Ford. I'm sure it would be a class act, and would be the push the aftermarket vendors would need to get more product to us.

 

Let me start by saying I'm not trying to start a fight. P_Adams you are talking about Ford and GM while we are talking about Honda. But for the sake of this "conversation" I'll continue. It has already been stated that Honda transmissions don't handle much power over stock, which we all agree on. While the TH350s were used on several applications, you said it yourself:<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by P_Adams &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only accomodation made for high power apps was an additional clutch plate in the direct drive clutch pack.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why was this extra clutch plate here? To prevent slippage present with higher power levels. The same slippage would be present in a Honda tranny with higher power levels present from boost. So we could add an additional clutch plate (except no one makes one) or toss the auto in favor of a manual with an upgraded clutch. The point is stock Honda trannys don't like higher than stock power levels.

Now, back on topic: F-series turbo

 

Yes, and my point was that there are "Stock" horsepower levels throughout the Honda car line that daily handle the horsepower (that a turbo F22 would see "If kept to reasonable boost levels) using automatic transmissions.

Hey, everything we do it a crap shoot with regards to these cars. These threads are repleat with "i've lost me clutch pedal" or "my tranny keeps popping out of 5th" etc etc etc., and yet no one bashes the "manual" montra.
It all comes down to what you want to do

 

...common sense + automatic + boost =

...average H-T enthusiast w/lead foot + automatic + boost = another "My tranny broke" thread...

It's common sense. So Honda auto's don't have an extra clutch plate to handle extra power... big deal, you don't see turbocharged Hondas rolling off the lot. We all know Honda builds their vehicles to a higher standard, and their quality OEM parts have proven reliable in 'higher than stock' outputs. Point being... extra clutch plate or not, you beat it, you'll break it. Use your head, and you will have no problems.

 

P_Adams, you obviously haven't had much experience, nor do you have much knowledge of the automatic transmissions that honda mated to the f22b1 and b2 motors... driving style aside, those transmissions are crap...my previous accord was an auto which went out at around 110k miles...and i wouldn't exactly say that I was driving the car hard... it is also rather common knowledge that the auto trannies are **** as well...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by P_Adams &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my point was that there are "Stock" horsepower levels throughout the Honda car line that daily handle the horsepower (that a turbo F22 would see "If kept to reasonable boost levels) using automatic transmissions.</TD></TR></TABLE>

it's not "horsepower levels" that break transmissions, it's the combination of tourque and horsepower, which you seem to be forgetting all about...even though you are wrong about which transmissions are mated to which motor in which car (see next paragraph), it's the overall power of the engine that will break the tranny...for instance, a turbo f22 would probably make a little over 200 whp and a little over 200 ft lbs to the wheels...now this is not the same as the 200 hp and 160 ft/lbs the h22 is rated at the crank (which i'm sure you are referring to)...all the extra tourque that the turbo motor produces will actually yield a shorter life...but as i stated earlier, you are wrong about how the f22b accord's transmission is mated to all kinds of v6's and h22's and whatnot...remember that honda is not ford or chevy, therefore they make more than one variation of each Xcylinder motore and transmission they produce...

actually, that's not true...the transmission mated to the f22b1 or b2 was only put into the accords, odyssey, and f22 powered preludes...that's it...and you know what? they all made the same 130-145 hp...the h22 tranny, which you are probably referring to as making the 200 hp that the turbo accord would make, had a completely different auto transmission...it was actually capable of handling the power made by the h22...

 

yes Fords run Auto turbos and they spend lots of money of building auto trannys for the boost, But hes not driving a ford is he??? for someone running stock auto tranny it will go out ALOT sooner than a manual tranny. Besides manual trannys are more fun, alot harder to stage but if you can race a manual people have more respect for you.

someone that is looking into turboing there car they obviously want to go fast so of course hes going to abuse it.