I am already starting to make plans for the car to be completed over the winter. I am very interested in adding the ATS carbon LSD and the ATS FD. It is likely that I will be able to get both - but if you had to choose one which would it be? This is a track only car being prepared for SCCA Time Trials with an eye to lowering lap times.

ATS Carbon LSD: $1,350
ATS 4.9 Final Drive: $865

 

ballin!

they are both amazing pieces, especially the LSD

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the carbon LSD was more for RWD cars?

 

I think at one time that was true. I received this response from Yasu when I asked the question:

"Two years ago, I would have recommended our metal LSD for time trial.
However, we have accumulated a lot of data with carbon LSD and
currently our view is that even for FF car carbon LSD can be as
effective as metal at a race track. It comes down to driver's taste.
Metal LSD gives you an immediate lock at the exit of a corner while
our carbon LSD provides milder transition. In Japan, for Integra one
make race, still metal one is popular but for super tikyu (endurance
race), the top DC5 is equipped with our carbon LSD."

And from their site: "Our tests in Japan by several professional drivers show the preference of he metal LSD over the carbon LSD for FF cars by the margin of 7 to 3.. However, the popularity of the carbon LSD for FF cars are rising every year and our current view is that the carbon LSD is as effective as the metal LSD for roadracing with FF cars. If you also drive on the street, ATS recommends the carbon LSD."

 

sorry for my ignorance, but how would this lsd change the characteristics of the R? IE what does it do over our stock lsd?

 

Is the LSD a 'clutch type'? I was thinking about getting the Quiafe. I've heard it's pretty good for the street and occasional track day.

I've never heard a single bad comment about the ATS FD. I chose the JDM FD 'cause I'm a *****

 

I'd go with the metal lsd (more agressive) and the 3/4/5 gearset.

That helps with keeping the car in the power band a bit better...

I know the 4.9 is cheaper - and that's why lots of us have gone that route.

 

What's the longevity of the LSD?

The FD will be a set-it-and-forget-it installation.

I'm all about continuing in the Honda spirit - low maintenance

 

any advantages on the clutch type lsd or non clutch type? the spoon one i believe i was told was a clutch type and would need rebuilding just in case before re-use (referring to a used spoon lsd)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd go with the metal lsd (more agressive) and the 3/4/5 gearset.
That helps with keeping the car in the power band a bit better...
I know the 4.9 is cheaper - and that's why lots of us have gone that route.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Interesting - I hadn't given the close ratio gear set much thought but I can see what you are saying. Is anybody using the ATS 3/4/5 gears?

 

If I had to choose, I'd go with the FD, but personally I'd wait until I could get both.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Interesting - I hadn't given the close ratio gear set much thought but I can see what you are saying. Is anybody using the ATS 3/4/5 gears?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Jon, the gear set is definitely a better mod than the FD alone.
For our tran, the stock 2nd are already very short, putting in the 4.9 would make it pretty much useless. But with the 3-4-5 gear set with stock 4.4FD, the 2nd gear is still usable and you could rip through 3-4-5 just as fast as the 4.9 alone. In addition, the rpm drops between shifts would be less too, which is awesome for racing.

But you have to check the rules. Like Honda Challenge, it only allows FD mod.

 

The ATS LSD is so much better (in a race situation) than the oem unit it isn't funny.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Jon, the gear set is definitely a better mod than the FD alone.
For our tran, the stock 2nd are already very short, putting in the 4.9 would make it pretty much useless. But with the 3-4-5 gear set with stock 4.4FD, the 2nd gear is still usable and you could rip through 3-4-5 just as fast as the 4.9 alone. In addition, the rpm drops between shifts would be less too, which is awesome for racing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd be a bit worried about the top speed though. With the OEM FD and the ATS close gears it look like top speed is only 120mph. That won;t be enough on bigger tracks or tracks with a longer straight.

http://www.a-t-s-usa.com/ats-p...shtml

 

.....you have a higher redline than the 8000 that they posted.

also take into account wheel and tire diameters.

i've got the 4.9 final AND the old ats metal lsd in my itr trannied hatch. I'm going to install the 3/4/5 gearset as well soon... depending on how high your rev limiter is, you shouldn't lose much if anything in going to the gearset vs the final drive...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The ATS LSD is so much better (in a race situation) than the oem unit it isn't funny.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's a pretty amazing difference in a lapping situation (as i have no race experience). Barely comparable to the stock unit, IMO.

I can't really describe it other than while I was driving, and after, my reaction was .... "Wow wow wow wow wow!!!!"

 

So I take it you have the 4.4? In one of my trannies I have the 4.7 with a clutch pack diff, the diff is unbelievable. By far the best mod I've done. Constant traction is very noticeable, and far better than the stock LSD IMO. After knowing what the diff is like my only advice would be to by the diff.

Is this a track car only?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by walker111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So I take it you have the 4.4? In one of my trannies I have the 4.7 with a clutch pack diff, the diff is unbelievable. By far the best mod I've done. Constant traction is very noticeable, and far better than the stock LSD IMO. After knowing what the diff is like my only advice would be to by the diff.

Is this a track car only? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes - it is a track-only car and I have the 4.4. I am surprised not more people have voted for the LSD. I would think the LSD would have a bigger impact on driveability and lap times than the FD...

 

Like Tweak said my only concern w/ the LSD would be that it might not last as long as I'd like.

If I were shopping the ATS catalog I'd definitely be considering the carbon clutch too

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris93Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like Tweak said my only concern w/ the LSD would be that it might not last as long as I'd like.

If I were shopping the ATS catalog I'd definitely be considering the carbon clutch too </TD></TR></TABLE>

My diff has been running strong for over 15000 miles now. I change the trans fluid regular atleast every other oil change and add a friction modifier(Jeep) and it works great. Again definitely worth it!!!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes - it is a track-only car and I have the 4.4. I am surprised not more people have voted for the LSD. I would think the LSD would have a bigger impact on driveability and lap times than the FD...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think people feel they have a decent diff so there is no need to upgrade, though they fail to realize that the two diffs are night and day. Switching from a 4.4 to a 4.9 is a huge difference, and people "I think" feel that is worth more. Me on the other hand would prefer a good diff and a 4.7FD. I have yet to be in a 4.9 but I feel the 4.7 is as low as I want to go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes - it is a track-only car and I have the 4.4. I am surprised not more people have voted for the LSD. I would think the LSD would have a bigger impact on driveability and lap times than the FD...</TD></TR></TABLE>


Remember, this is a honda crowd. No offense to present company, but not everyone is willing to spend the $coinage$ for a wear item like an lsd... although mine has been going strong for a year and a half easily... So very few have experience with the ats lsd or a clutch type lsd in particular. If they knew, they'd definitely vote for it.

But it's your car. I suggest you purchase everything ATS makes.....!

 

I had a KAAZ and it was a love and hate relationship with that thing. I think I finally got the hang of how it felt and handled in the dry which I was simply amazed by....but I could never figure out what was going on in the wet.... (it could have been my dying RE010s at the time + I teH suck).

In any case, clutch pack LSDs are great for track use. If the rules permit that you are only allowed to change the final drive, I'd consider using the 4.785 JDM FD and getting the ATS LSD....

Otherwise, I'd go ATS 3-4-5 as well.

I run a Quaife now only because I no longer wanted to be bothered with the frequent and somewhat expensive oil changes. Race parts are race parts though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd be a bit worried about the top speed though. With the OEM FD and the ATS close gears it look like top speed is only 120mph. That won;t be enough on bigger tracks or tracks with a longer straight.

http://www.a-t-s-usa.com/ats-p...shtml </TD></TR></TABLE>

As Ken (Black R) mentioned earlier, you can change that by using a larger diameter tire and/or wheel combo. 225/50-15, 215/45-16, etc. Someone might say that it defeats the purpose of having shorter gears -- in some way, yes. But IMO the biggest advantage of having the gear set is less rpm drop between shifts.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kicker773 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">any advantages on the clutch type lsd or non clutch type? the spoon one i believe i was told was a clutch type and would need rebuilding just in case before re-use (referring to a used spoon lsd)</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have two track cars..
b16 powerd CRX w/ a clutch style lsd ( 1700 lbs)
the type r with a stock thorsen in it and on a big or small track the thorsen seems to work better in a corner situation where turns are more important.
The clutch type seem's to work better going straight.
Just my observation..

 

For the LSD, can't the carbon plates or whatever be replaced? I remember Rodney/Chris doing that to his ATS diff, though I don't remember if that was carbon or not.