New to welding?
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 943
Likes: 1
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
New to welding?
First you must decide what you want to build. Are you going to be welding alot of thin material? What kinds of material? Does precision matter more than speed? This is what you need to establish before you shop for a welder. First, I will address the different welding processes.
The first process we will discuss is stick welding, also called SMAW welding. SMAW is an ancronym for Sheilded Metal Arc Welding. This is what most people think of when they hear the term "arc welding." It uses a consumable metal electrode held in what is typically called a stinger. It works best for metals 1/8" thick and thicker and is designed primarily for steel and stainless steels. Although it seems simple, it does require a good deal of operator skill and is not generally recommended for automotive work.
The second type is called flux cored welding, or FCAW. This stands for Flux Cored Arc Welding. This is a simple process, as it uses a continous metal wire electrode that is fed through the machine by a feeder and is deposited into the weld puddle as you travel. The flux inside of the wire melts and shields the weld puddle from atmospheric contamination. It allows a quick travel speed due to the continous feed and is preferable for steels thicker than 1/8".
The third type is called MIG (Metal Inert Gas) welding, or GMAW. This stands for Gas Metal Arc Welding. It uses a continuous wire feed of solid wire, similar to a flux cored welder. This is different than flux core as it uses what is known as a sheilding gas instead of flux to protect the weld pool from the atmosphere. The most common gas for MIG welding is called C25, which is a mixture of 25% CO2 and 75% Argon gas. This process has a very fast travel speed, and low operator skill is required. This is in my opinion the best process for beginners, as it is fairly easy to learn, with good results.
The fourth type is TIG, or GTAW. This is the slowest of the four processes described earlier, however, is also the most controlled and precise of the four. This is the preferred method for precise fabrication when welding thin material such as piping. This is also the most asthetic weld bead of the four processes, and is usually done when weld quality is paramount. Operator skill is very high, as you are required to hold a torch, run a foot control to control the amperage, and add filler material with your other hand. This takes a high level of coordination, and can be imposing for most people at first. TIG can weld nearly any thickness of metal, and Engloid has done .006" with his TIG machine.
Here are a few examples of the different welds:
MIG:
TIG:
(Thanks Engloid)
Some aluminum TIG:
(Thanks Tony1)
Flux Core:
Thanks to cua0
As far as machine recommendation, I prefer Miller, and personally own a Syncrowave 180SD. It is my first TIG welder, and have found it to work well for the things I build. Alot of people will find that a MIG welder will be more than enough for what you will do with a Honda. I like the Hobart Handler series MIGs, as they are inexpensive and work well for the money. You can find a Hobart Handler for under $500. I would not recommend a flux core or stick welder for automotive use, they will work, but it won't be pretty.
Lincoln Electric and Esab are a couple of other companies that make nice machines, and brand selection is more of a personal preference than anything. Something to look for is dealers and support in your area. For instance if you have an Esab dealer close by but no Miller dealers for 200 miles, an Esab would be a good choice. I have not personally used an Esab so I can't comment on their performance.
Modified by civicross at 7:59 AM 9/19/2005
Modified by civicross at 12:26 PM 9/21/2005
Modified by civicross at 12:18 PM 9/22/2005
Modified by civicross at 2:26 PM 9/22/2005
The first process we will discuss is stick welding, also called SMAW welding. SMAW is an ancronym for Sheilded Metal Arc Welding. This is what most people think of when they hear the term "arc welding." It uses a consumable metal electrode held in what is typically called a stinger. It works best for metals 1/8" thick and thicker and is designed primarily for steel and stainless steels. Although it seems simple, it does require a good deal of operator skill and is not generally recommended for automotive work.
The second type is called flux cored welding, or FCAW. This stands for Flux Cored Arc Welding. This is a simple process, as it uses a continous metal wire electrode that is fed through the machine by a feeder and is deposited into the weld puddle as you travel. The flux inside of the wire melts and shields the weld puddle from atmospheric contamination. It allows a quick travel speed due to the continous feed and is preferable for steels thicker than 1/8".
The third type is called MIG (Metal Inert Gas) welding, or GMAW. This stands for Gas Metal Arc Welding. It uses a continuous wire feed of solid wire, similar to a flux cored welder. This is different than flux core as it uses what is known as a sheilding gas instead of flux to protect the weld pool from the atmosphere. The most common gas for MIG welding is called C25, which is a mixture of 25% CO2 and 75% Argon gas. This process has a very fast travel speed, and low operator skill is required. This is in my opinion the best process for beginners, as it is fairly easy to learn, with good results.
The fourth type is TIG, or GTAW. This is the slowest of the four processes described earlier, however, is also the most controlled and precise of the four. This is the preferred method for precise fabrication when welding thin material such as piping. This is also the most asthetic weld bead of the four processes, and is usually done when weld quality is paramount. Operator skill is very high, as you are required to hold a torch, run a foot control to control the amperage, and add filler material with your other hand. This takes a high level of coordination, and can be imposing for most people at first. TIG can weld nearly any thickness of metal, and Engloid has done .006" with his TIG machine.
Here are a few examples of the different welds:
MIG:
TIG:
(Thanks Engloid)
Some aluminum TIG:
(Thanks Tony1)
Flux Core:
Thanks to cua0
As far as machine recommendation, I prefer Miller, and personally own a Syncrowave 180SD. It is my first TIG welder, and have found it to work well for the things I build. Alot of people will find that a MIG welder will be more than enough for what you will do with a Honda. I like the Hobart Handler series MIGs, as they are inexpensive and work well for the money. You can find a Hobart Handler for under $500. I would not recommend a flux core or stick welder for automotive use, they will work, but it won't be pretty.
Lincoln Electric and Esab are a couple of other companies that make nice machines, and brand selection is more of a personal preference than anything. Something to look for is dealers and support in your area. For instance if you have an Esab dealer close by but no Miller dealers for 200 miles, an Esab would be a good choice. I have not personally used an Esab so I can't comment on their performance.
Modified by civicross at 7:59 AM 9/19/2005
Modified by civicross at 12:26 PM 9/21/2005
Modified by civicross at 12:18 PM 9/22/2005
Modified by civicross at 2:26 PM 9/22/2005
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
From: dane county
Re: New to welding? (civicross)
nice..those tigs are beautifull. Im doing lots of research now,im going to buy a welder in the spring.I have to do a downpipe and exhaust for my car and my roomate and a friend are going to be in need of some welding in the spring..i like posts like these.
OG Fabricator
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,438
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville, tn, 37912
Re: New to welding? (k24em2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k24em2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have anything to add engloid? I tried to cover as much as I know, but I'm sure there is stuff I left out.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not really, except that MIG stands for Metal Inert Gas.
Not really, except that MIG stands for Metal Inert Gas.
Trending Topics
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
From: Mechanicsville, MD, US
Re: New to welding? (civicross)
I just bought a flux core- MIG welder.
I'm a little confused as flux core is simply electric, as is my machiene, but why is it called a MIG welder?
Also, is there a way to run a nice bead with the machiene (It's a cheap harbor freight). I seem to be getting a whole lot of slag and my beads are just ugly to look at. Is there something I'm probably doing wrong or is it just that I need more practice.
Do you just run stright down the line to run a bead, or are you supposed to go up and down, or left to right while you weld?
I'm a little confused as flux core is simply electric, as is my machiene, but why is it called a MIG welder?
Also, is there a way to run a nice bead with the machiene (It's a cheap harbor freight). I seem to be getting a whole lot of slag and my beads are just ugly to look at. Is there something I'm probably doing wrong or is it just that I need more practice.
Do you just run stright down the line to run a bead, or are you supposed to go up and down, or left to right while you weld?
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
From: Mechanicsville, MD, US
Re: New to welding? (civicross)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicross »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you buy a bottle of gas, then you can probably use it as a MIG welder. Does it have a gas inlet on the back of it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll have to look when I get home, but I doubt it.
I'll have to look when I get home, but I doubt it.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,187
Likes: 2
From: SoCal, CA, USA
Re: New to welding? (civicross)
Should include pics of welds on Aluminum.
I've been doing some TIG on aluminum tubes lately, its not easy to do, and its what I'm learning on, but I'm getting better.
I've been doing some TIG on aluminum tubes lately, its not easy to do, and its what I'm learning on, but I'm getting better.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
From: Mechanicsville, MD, US
Re: New to welding? (civicross)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicross »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have a link to the harbor freight part?</TD></TR></TABLE>
http://www.harborfreight.com/c...44567
That's it. It says flux-core and that no gas is needed, but it says MIG on the front. I was just confused by it.
http://www.harborfreight.com/c...44567
That's it. It says flux-core and that no gas is needed, but it says MIG on the front. I was just confused by it.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: abq, nm, usa
Re: New to welding? (nota-eg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nota-eg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just bought a flux core- MIG welder.
I'm a little confused as flux core is simply electric, as is my machiene, but why is it called a MIG welder?
Also, is there a way to run a nice bead with the machiene (It's a cheap harbor freight). I seem to be getting a whole lot of slag and my beads are just ugly to look at. Is there something I'm probably doing wrong or is it just that I need more practice.
Do you just run stright down the line to run a bead, or are you supposed to go up and down, or left to right while you weld?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i want to get into welding i was looking at those and i was wondering how good they realy are or if it is just going to be a waste of money. and i would like to see any recommendations on how to use it and get some nice looking welds from it.
I'm a little confused as flux core is simply electric, as is my machiene, but why is it called a MIG welder?
Also, is there a way to run a nice bead with the machiene (It's a cheap harbor freight). I seem to be getting a whole lot of slag and my beads are just ugly to look at. Is there something I'm probably doing wrong or is it just that I need more practice.
Do you just run stright down the line to run a bead, or are you supposed to go up and down, or left to right while you weld?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i want to get into welding i was looking at those and i was wondering how good they realy are or if it is just going to be a waste of money. and i would like to see any recommendations on how to use it and get some nice looking welds from it.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 943
Likes: 1
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Re: New to welding? (da9blacksheep)
I would look at a MIG welder for your first welder. The hobart handler series MIGs are pretty nice for the money. A decent Hobart MIG can be had for <$500.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
From: Mechanicsville, MD, US
Re: New to welding? (da9blacksheep)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by da9blacksheep »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i want to get into welding i was looking at those and i was wondering how good they realy are or if it is just going to be a waste of money. and i would like to see any recommendations on how to use it and get some nice looking welds from it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I bought it from a member on HT because I've got some charge pipes/downpipe that needs to be welded. I've done some practice welding (looks like ***)
I talked to my friend and he said HF is not a good company to buy from because support for their products is crappy. He told me to get a Craftsman for $220 that I can replace if I break, but I didn't have tha tkind of money.
So far I haven't had any issues with it.
If I can find a digicam I'll take some pictures of some of the stuff I've welded so far.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I bought it from a member on HT because I've got some charge pipes/downpipe that needs to be welded. I've done some practice welding (looks like ***)
I talked to my friend and he said HF is not a good company to buy from because support for their products is crappy. He told me to get a Craftsman for $220 that I can replace if I break, but I didn't have tha tkind of money.
So far I haven't had any issues with it.
If I can find a digicam I'll take some pictures of some of the stuff I've welded so far.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: abq, nm, usa
Re: New to welding? (nota-eg)
oh i forgot i paid off my car so now i will have some extra money every paycheck so i can buy a little nicer welder than a harbor frieght. lincolns are good right anyone have experiance with those and if so do you recommend them and do you know a general price on a decent lincoln mig welder thanks guys sorry if i snaked you thread but it was a NEW TO WELDING thread so i thought this would be a good place to ask my questions
sorry if i snaked you thread but it was a NEW TO WELDING thread so i thought this would be a good place to ask my questions
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 943
Likes: 1
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Re: New to welding? (da9blacksheep)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by da9blacksheep »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh i forgot i paid off my car so now i will have some extra money every paycheck so i can buy a little nicer welder than a harbor frieght. lincolns are good right anyone have experiance with those and if so do you recommend them and do you know a general price on a decent lincoln mig welder thanks guys sorry if i snaked you thread but it was a NEW TO WELDING thread so i thought this would be a good place to ask my questions</TD></TR></TABLE>
That was the design of the thread. How much are you looking to spend on a nice MIG welder? Do you have 220v service to your garage?
sorry if i snaked you thread but it was a NEW TO WELDING thread so i thought this would be a good place to ask my questions</TD></TR></TABLE>That was the design of the thread. How much are you looking to spend on a nice MIG welder? Do you have 220v service to your garage?
OG Fabricator
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,438
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville, tn, 37912
Re: New to welding? (nota-eg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nota-eg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
http://www.harborfreight.com/c...44567
That's it. It says flux-core and that no gas is needed, but it says MIG on the front. I was just confused by it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Technically, a person could argue that flux core is MIG and that the inert gas comes from the flux burning.
In other words, M (metal electrode), I (inert), G (gas).
http://www.harborfreight.com/c...44567
That's it. It says flux-core and that no gas is needed, but it says MIG on the front. I was just confused by it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Technically, a person could argue that flux core is MIG and that the inert gas comes from the flux burning.
In other words, M (metal electrode), I (inert), G (gas).
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: abq, nm, usa
Re: New to welding? (civicross)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicross »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That was the design of the thread. How much are you looking to spend on a nice MIG welder? Do you have 220v service to your garage?</TD></TR></TABLE>
no i just have the regular outlets in my garage but i want to spend between 400and500 dollars on a welder and i dont want to use flux i want gas is it possible to get a decent welder that has gas to protect and will plug into a regular outlet for that price range? thanks guys and this thread kicks *** for noobs like me wanting to get into welding
no i just have the regular outlets in my garage but i want to spend between 400and500 dollars on a welder and i dont want to use flux i want gas is it possible to get a decent welder that has gas to protect and will plug into a regular outlet for that price range? thanks guys and this thread kicks *** for noobs like me wanting to get into welding