Newbie question. I have been lurking for some time and have read the honda-perf pages about 100 times. I need to replace the 1.5 in my 88 DX hb and need some advice. HP is not as important as reliability and ease of the swap. Can anyone give me some advice? Also, there seems to be some contrary opinions on whether an 88 trans/flywheel/clutch/axles will work with the D16x6, anyone has this setup? Are there any problems using my current intake with the newer motor? I was leaning toward the ZC but like the idea of a more off the shelf setup with a D16z6.

Any info is much appreciated

cmartin

 

vtec all the way, your 88 tranny will work if you use your 88 flywheel clutch disc and pressure plate...you'll never regret having the newer motor, and when you get into the aftermarket list, the list for the z6 is way longer

my 91 dx with the d16z6 eats all my friends with zc's alive

vtec is wonderful

 

Do a search this topic is discussed at least twice every month.

 

AMEN!

What kind of times do the Z6's run in a 4th G hatch or a crx? I don't know if I've ever seen one run. I mean on average. It never fails that if you ask a question like this you get about 10 people who all say (example) 15.2 - 15.4 and then one for that swears to god he runs 13.9 on street tires in his with no bolt ons but doesn't take in to account that the track he runs at goes down hill or whatever.


[Modified by therealciviczc, 1:36 PM 2/28/2002]

 

Thanks for the info. Sounds like a no brainer to me!


Chris

 

i was really happy to get mine to a 15.1 with some bolt ons intake, exaust, ignition, and vtec controller

 

d16z6 any day over the ZC why you ask:
-newer eninge, usually less kms
-anything goes wrong lots of parts for it
-better on gas
-just as quick, but slightly lighter
-more reliable
-smog approved
-its VTEC
-many options open for NA/Turbo apps

 

I prefer ZC basically because it feels more fun to than a Z6. I also don't like bridging generations. I can't really think of anything for the Z6 that you can't get for the ZC. You can buy ZC cams, cam gears, SOHC headers will work, just about everything crosses over. The ZC is a cheaper swap in my opinion because you don't have to buy anything to activate vtec and you don't have to switch manifolds or do really anything more than bolt it in, and swtich the plugs on the distributer. The motor has more tuning possibilites because of cam tuning, and I hate to say it since it shouldn't be an issue, but it looks a better in the bay IMO. The only advantage to a Z6 that I can think of is the newer motor probably has less miles. It's not quite as powerful as the ZC, and like I said before. It just doesn't feel as fun in my opinion. It just feels like a stock civic only a little faster. The ZC feels more like it wants to be run hard. I can't really describe it, but drive both, and I think you'll agree.

It's all a matter of opinion. Everyone just sticks up for what they have because that's obviously what they like better. They're similar in performance as far as 1/4 times. I think a ZC will pull on a Z6 from third on out if all other factors are the same.

Like what was said above, this topic gets beat to death about once a week. Just think over the price, what type of driving you do, how much work you want to get in to, etc. Also keep in mind that I bought my ZC years ago. I've heard people on here say that the ones people are getting now are in pretty poor condition, although I haven't seen anyone get one for a few years. If that's the case, a Z6 might be better. Just get it from a yard, and not someone who swapped it out. The ones that are swapped out have usually been run in to the ground before the person decided to go B16, B18, or whatever.

 

My brother has a '90 dx h/b with a zc and integ ecu. I've got a '89 h/b with '99 d16y8 sohc vtec, integ ecu and vtec controller. I've only had the motor in my car for about a month, so I'm still tuning it. It feels as fast, if not faster than the zc. We have yet to race because he's busy with school and I've got work. The track should be opening up in the next month, so I'll let you all know.

To the comment about the zc being cheaper to swap. I disagree. I bought my motor with flywheel and clutch for about $500 and paid someone $350 to put it in. I bought the field's vtec controller for $150. Including miscellaneous stuff like wires, plugs, fluids, etc. I think I've paid under $1,200. So it's the same, if not cheaper than a zc. If I didn't get this motor from a friend, I might've gone with the zc. I'm very happy with it. It's got about 31k miles and about the same power as a zc. I really like the fact that it is a much newer engine ('99) and has many more parts for it. Also, there are much more d16z6's and d16y8's around due to everybody swapping them out for the B series motors.

I hope that helps you decide. Get what you want based on what your needs and the information you get from people, not what they tell you to get. You'll be happier with your choice that way.





[Modified by NawTeeCRX, 6:09 PM 2/28/2002]

 

To counter, I paid $350 for my ZC, $100 to ship, $50 for an ECU, about $55 for a T-belt and cap, and that was it. That leaves me at about $555 or I'll say 575 after oil and other miscellaneous crap. I installed mine myself, but even with the installation cost of $350 (which would be way too much for a ZC swap since its so simple) I'm at $925 (which again, isn't what I paid, I'm just trying to make it equal by adding your cost of install), and I'm still a few hundred below you.

There are too many factors to compare the two. Someone may find a ZC cheap, someone may find a Z6 cheap. I will say that I literally drove my civic to the dyno with no tuning at all, with only a header, cat back, and crappy hot air intake, and nailed 128hp. They told me that they had dyno'd a few Z6 with the basic I/H/E, and they were hitting about 110-115 hp. They also said that the only other ZC they'd dyno'd hit about 120, so I may have just had a good day or a strong motor.

Here is the plot (assuming geoshotties won't block it after 2 people look at it per year)...

http://www.geocities.com/civiczc/dyno2.jpg

I realize you can't compare dyno to dyno since they all read a little different, but according to the person that was dynoing it, it did better than most of the stock Z6s he had done. I personally have never seen a stock Z6 hit quite that high on passen's dyno.

 

Lots of good information, thanks again. I apologize for the redundancy. Didnt realize the 96+ motors would work as well. I need to do some more research as I still have questions about making sure my A/C fits, Vtec controller config and exhaust choices. My biggest issue is finding a good source for these motors, I just need to call around more. I have gotten prices from $550 - $1200 for ZC's and D16z6's. I guess being in Maryland doesnt help that much in that arena!

Thanks again for the assistance

Chris

 

Yes, your a/c will fit. I'm using the Field vtec controller/air fuel controller and i'm more than happy with it.

 

cmartin,

check out http://www.importautosalvage.com they are very reputable and knowledgable. They may be a little higher than some place but you know your motor will be right. They are in NC so the shipping probably won't kill you.

 

Just remember that if you go SOHC VTEC, you really need to use the SOHC VTEC ECU (P28). Otherwise, you end up with a motor that is a dog in VTEC (since the PM6 has no VTEC fuel maps). Also, such a halfass setup (SOHC VTEC/PM6 ECU) will likely not be California legal (which is one reason why alot of people so SOHC VTEC over ZC), will get worse gas mileage, and will have distributer mounting problems.

 

Thanks for bringing that up. I was concerned that using a 4g Si intake and ecu with the newer motor would not be optimal. I have be honest, the sole reason for this swap is that my motor has 190k, not for the performance. I figure if I am going to swap it out why not get a little more power too! but, I dont want to lose the fuel economy in the process! Being legal in MD shouldnt be an issue, unless the fuel maps are way off, as there really is no visual inspection to speak of. Decisions decisions. I would love to drive one with a ZC and the D16z6 w/ the Si intake/ecu to see how it really runs...

Thanks again

Chris

 

You don't need to use the P28. Instead of converting to OBD-2, I used the '88-'89 pg7 integ ecu and the Field vtec controller to set the vtec and fuel settings. No fitting problems what-so-ever with the Si distributor fitting on the y8 motor. I've heard that the distributor needs to be ported out a little to be adjustable on the z6 motors, but it isn't the case on my y8 motor... i'm able to adjust the timing just like i did on the old dx engine.

 

well seeing that your basis is an 88 dx hb. IF it were me, i wouldnt do either engine. unless i can find an si tranny. the dx tranny is a POS. the gearing sucks. I would go b16a or b18a because you are starting on the dx basis. but if i had an si tranny laying around i would go zc due to easier installation. no vtec bs.

 

I'm using a 88 trann with a D16Z6. I'm using a act hd pressure plate and a stock 88 clutch. It's just that that 88 clutch is smaller then the other single cam ones and the 89-00 clutches won't fit on the 88 tranny it'll still bolt up to the blocks and the axles are the same.