First of all, I'm extremely saddened by the devastation down in New Orleans and MS. I have been to New Orleans a couple times, it was a great old city that will never be the same.

Way up here in NE Ohio gas prices have risen over $3. The front page of the newspaper today talked about possible shortages (which I think is just the media overhyping things as usual).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Akron Beacon Journal &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Gasoline shortage possible in region

Companies have yet to suffer problems, but industry group says supply may be inadequate

The havoc of Hurricane Katrina showed up at local gasoline pumps Tuesday, and later in the week you might have to scramble to even find fuel.

``I'm not sure that the supply is going to be adequate because you got a multiplicity of problems,'' said Ed Weglarz, president of Great Lakes Petroleum and Allied Trades Association. ``You got some refineries that are down and some crude oil supplies that are down.''</TD></TR></TABLE>

Meanwhile I'm getting ready for this weekend's NASA event at Beaverun. Should I feel guilty about wasting precious natural resources to indulge in my hobby? I don't feel too bad....even though my mileage drops dramatically on track I figure it's probably still better than most people's SUV's. Is that right? Or just a rationalization?

- Mark

 

Oil is a market, the prices are set where they are for a reason. In any business transaction both sides benefit. Therefore oil producers are perfectly happy selling gas at $3, while you are perfectly happy buying it at $3. Don't see a problem with that, it's not like you're eating veal.

 

if you start feeling guilty, short shift every other session

in reality, it can be said that we are killing the ozone layer and wasting natural resources... but then so are boaters and airplane hobbiest.

edit: yummy veal!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by White98LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't see a problem with that, it's not like you're eating veal.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ugh maybe I'm just a bad person? I never had a problem with veal but my wife has totally ruined for me.

 

It will go back down once the **** down in LA and the gulf gets better. It may take a few weeks or months but things will go back to normal. I would not feel guilty at all. That is like feeling guilty for eating dinner while there are starving kids in Africa you make the money spend it how you wish man.

 

I set my timing back so I could start using 87-octane.

 

I know a couple of people who are Civil servants in the New Orleans area. One is an EMT.
Communications are still horrible, but word is that things are actually worse down there than what we're seeing on the News.

A friend's brother is a police officer down there. They spoke with him Monday morning just as they were evacing the police station at the last minute and haven't heard from him since.

The gas prices do suck, but those of us who don't live down there and don't have family down there are getting off easy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fireant &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I set my timing back so I could start using 87-octane. </TD></TR></TABLE>

lol you arent the only one!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Markus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ugh maybe I'm just a bad person? I never had a problem with veal but my wife has totally ruined for me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Haha so you worry about using up other people's gas but not about little cows that are pretty much in a living hell for their entire short lives? I'm not even a hippie/vegetarian (in fact I had some cow last night)!

I don't feel bad. People bitch and whine about gas prices but in reality consumption last month was at an all time high and still rising despite the prices. Truck/SUV sales are still very hot. Most people will complain about it all day but not change their own habits one bit, which irritates me to no end.

And MMsportsRexSi mentioned pollution... valid argument but I don't care so much about that either. Other than CO2, our cars (most anyway) pollute much less than planes, boats, lawnmowers, and other motorized sports equipment. I once read that using a jetski for 2 hours produces similar pollutants as driving a brand-new car for 100,000 miles. When the SULEV Accord came out, they said over 100,000 miles it pollutes about the same amount as spilling a quart of gasoline (CO2 excluded of course). Meanwhile even today brand-new cars are being sold in China with NO pollution controls. Call me selfish but the rest of the world has to catch up to modern 1st-world market cars before I'm going to give much of a damn about my car polluting.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fireant &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I set my timing back so I could start using 87-octane. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I did too last summer. The ironic thing is that as gas gets more expensive, the relative cost of getting premium becomes cheaper. Since it's generally a 10-cent or so extra charge over mid-grade, which is 10-15 cents over regular, and that hasn't seemed to change between when gas was $1/gal and now at $3/gal, the price difference went from ~20% then to only about 6-7% today. But yes, every little bit helps and that's why I did it too!

 

I feel for the people affected by the Hurricane, but no, i'm not gonna feel guilty burning up some 94 (like over $4/gal up here) at this weeked 2-day regional championship. Hell no. Work too hard the rest of the time, so it's deserved AFAIC...

 

Besides the temporary spike from Katrina, gas prices are spiking now for the same reason they did in the 70's. Supply and demand.

In the late 70's demand exceeded refining capacity (supply) and prices increased. Everybody jumped onto the oil money train and refining capacity soared (FYI, even at $35 a barrel profits are obscene). In the early 80's, supply exceeded demand and prices stabilized or even fell. Ever since then we've been riding on the surplus refining capacity created during the last oil boom. Economists even have it pegged to about a ~20 year cycle. Just like clockwork... 5 years from now, the U.S. oil industry will go through another "bust" cycle just like last time, and the world will ride on the excess refining capacity for another decade or two before the cycle repeats.

 

presuming that we can get more oil to refine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by White98LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I did too last summer. The ironic thing is that as gas gets more expensive, the relative cost of getting premium becomes cheaper. Since it's generally a 10-cent or so extra charge over mid-grade, which is 10-15 cents over regular, and that hasn't seemed to change between when gas was $1/gal and now at $3/gal, the price difference went from ~20% then to only about 6-7% today. But yes, every little bit helps and that's why I did it too!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Tell me about it. I live in Nebraska and being the corn loving bunch of jerkoffs this state is our gas prices are as such (this is at BP of course) if Premium 92 octane was 2.50 a gallon, midgrade 89 octane (this **** with ethenol) would be 2.30 a gallon and then 87 octane is 2.40. They put a .10 tax on regular 87 octane so that people will buy the crap with the corn squeezings in it to stimulate are economy. So with my two cars, a 93 turbo ls hatch, and a 91 toyota turdcel I put premium 92 in both. I pay a whole extra dollar for 92 even in the crappy turdcel just because it runs so much better on it. Welcome to the vast fields of Corn.

 

Hm, I was under the impression that the Pre-Hurricaine price hike was found to be convenient price gouging (because of a war in Iraq) and had nothing to do with any shortage at all. Exxon Mobile is enjoying record profits, up 35% from their previous high.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know a couple of people who are Civil servants in the New Orleans area. One is an EMT.
Communications are still horrible, but word is that things are actually worse down there than what we're seeing on the News.

A friend's brother is a police officer down there. They spoke with him Monday morning just as they were evacing the police station at the last minute and haven't heard from him since.

The gas prices do suck, but those of us who don't live down there and don't have family down there are getting off easy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds about right... communications are so bad that the really awful stuff isn't making it out on satellite feed.

I went thru 2 mild hurricanes last year and was suprised by how much force is in a Cat 1/2 storm... I can't even imagine what a Cat 4/5 storm would be like. I know my employer has taken up donations to help buy food for local firefighters who've been sent to LA to help out... unfortunately, their food supplies are already running thin with no real sign of relief in sight

Christian, who doesn't feel guilty about the oil/gas thing...

 

ties shoes a little tighter to run far, far, far away:

so, mardi gras is still on, right?

 

I am with you on this one. I don't feel guilty...I am kind of pissed off about the whole thing. I think that the oil companies are taking advantage of the world events and maybe even risking a little to see when we will cry uncle. So far they are winning.

With news of the hurricane hitting and its location, I filled up with gas yesterday morning, even though I was not all the way empty. I paid $2.39 for regular. This morning when I drove by the same station, it was $2.54 for regular. On my way home, the SAME station has it now for $2.89. Other stations are about $0.10 higher from what I have seen.

You cannot convince me that a storm that hit yesterday, has dried up supply so quickly to make my gas price go up $.50-$.60 in one day. Especially since I live 10 miles from a HUGE tank farm. The capitalists are gonna screw everybody on this one...

 

I actually work with a guy whose father used to own a few BP stations (highly lucrative business BTW). He said if it's a high-traffic station, it's not uncommon for the station to need to refill every day.

FWIW (which might be nothing)...

--Karl, who shudders at the thought of what diesel must be up to by now...can't bear to look...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's not uncommon for the station to need to refill every day..</TD></TR></TABLE>A station here in town lowered it's prices on Sun. (I think) for 87 to $1.95 or some crap... they needed to refill with 3 tankers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RexRacer19 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You cannot convince me that a storm that hit yesterday, has dried up supply so quickly to make my gas price go up $.50-$.60 in one day. Especially since I live 10 miles from a HUGE tank farm. The capitalists are gonna screw everybody on this one...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Think about it this way. You run a gas station (or refinery, or drilling company with storage capacity), and you know that there's going to be a shortage soon, driving up prices. It would make sense just to hang onto that gas, and sell it in a week when prices will rise to a certain number. You're probably not the only one that has this idea, so the current supply of gas goes down, driving the price up to that same number. At this point, you have no reason to wait on selling that gas.

Basically, current price of commodities like gas reflects the predicted price in the future.

 

The infrastructure that delivers it is what's really hurt.

 

Well H1 is hybrid class, does that mean I can run a Civic or Accord gas electric.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MattP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Think about it this way. You run a gas station (or refinery, or drilling company with storage capacity), and you know that there's going to be a shortage soon, driving up prices. It would make sense just to hang onto that gas, and sell it in a week when prices will rise to a certain number. You're probably not the only one that has this idea, so the current supply of gas goes down, driving the price up to that same number. At this point, you have no reason to wait on selling that gas.

Basically, current price of commodities like gas reflects the predicted price in the future.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is a good way of thinking about it...that probably explains why there was at least a $.20 price difference across the side of town that I live on. Every man for himself. One guy goes for it and the other says "damnit I should have charged $.10 more..."

I guess that I have a hard time understanding that there is zero buffer between refineries and the pump.

All this really makes me want to work on swaping the motor out of my dead civic std...I could more than double my gas mileage.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">--Karl, who shudders at the thought of what diesel must be up to by now...can't bear to look...</TD></TR></TABLE>

i looked for j00...

2.99 a gallon in Charlotte, as of 1.00pm Wed.

nick, who may take up cycling....