I'm trying to figure out if a mildly prepped H1 car can run around a 2:09 with race slicks. The reason I say a mildly prepped H1 car is because I'm trying to figure out how in the hell an ITR running in E-Production trim can come close to this since there is weight minimum, limited engine prep, and limited tranny prep. I think most H1 cars (DOT tires) could run around a 2:13. I would still say a 2:13 with an awesome driver since the ITR is limited prep... Then take off say 2 seconds for slicks (everyone I spoke to said slicks are good for about 2 seconds). That comes down to around 2:11...still missing 2 seconds....

WTF...

 

Again, if a 2900lb 4 door BMW 325i with a little over 200whp and DOT tires can run 2:12s...

Whats the EP weight on the ITR? 2100lbs?
And you're allowed a cam, ram air...
I have to think you can get 210 or more at the wheels.
And on slicks?

C'mon man. 3 seconds faster than that BMW should be cake.
On paper.

 

Slicks are good for about 2s on what track? If they are worth 2s at summit then they are worth more than that on a longer track.

 

Well ****, if that's the case, then I guess I better just throw in the towel. So, I'll make myself feel better by saying...
ITS BMW - 2850 lbs, 2.5L 6 cyl, 215 HP Stock - no telling what the power is at the wheel, and from what I've been told Chett's record is 2:14 at VIR. Don't make me feel worse than I already am.

EP ITR Weight - 2225 lbs, limited engine prep, limited suspension prep, limited tranny prep = engine - 10.5 comp ratio limit & .450" (11.43mm) valve lift limit, IT Spec Head. I'm still WAY under 200 HP. Then add more weight to the car if you have an aftermarket LSD and/or FD. Stock brakes, blah blah blah

I know there are a lot of EP cars that are over 200 WHP and under/around 2000 lbs.
Note: Chaterham = 1450 lbs, RX-7 = 2050 lbs

OK, I feel better now.

 

We were turning 2:19's-2:20's during our test day a few weeks ago in the ITA Teg. I would focus on dialing in the suspension and wouldn't focus so much on the hp to weight.

 

I know what Chet's car has HP wise. Its not more than you should be able to get out of a fresh, limited prep type R motor with a cam.
Now, the BMW definately has more torque, but it also weighs almost 700lbs more.
Both Chet and York ran 2:12s last year IIRC. One of the ITS RX7s was running 14s but I can't remember who that was.

FWIW Blake has done plenty of driving on both the latest Hoosiers and Slicks. He says the slicks are faster, but not that much faster. Maybe 1 to 2 seconds on most tracks.

Scott, who is convinced an EP ITR should be significantly faster than an ITS BMW.

 

h1 fully built car on toyos ran 217
h1 STOCK b18c5 on toyos ran 215
h1 s2k 212

h1 k20 hope for 211's come febuary.....maybe 210's if i can get out of oak tree quick and get some ***** at t10!!

 

the Caterham is about 125 whp.

the suspension and brakes are incredible, though. and from the design stage on up the car is setup to run on slicks.

but vir is definitely a HP track; you'd be slow on the straights in the Caterham (top end is around 115 mph or so).

i think an EP ITR could do OK at VIR!!!

good luck!

todd

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know what Chet's car has HP wise. Its not more than you should be able to get out of a fresh, limited prep type R motor with a cam.
Now, the BMW definately has more torque, but it also weighs almost 700lbs more.
Both Chet and York ran 2:12s last year IIRC. One of the ITS RX7s was running 14s but I can't remember who that was.

FWIW Blake has done plenty of driving on both the latest Hoosiers and Slicks. He says the slicks are faster, but not that much faster. Maybe 1 to 2 seconds on most tracks.

Scott, who is convinced an EP ITR should be significantly faster than an ITS BMW.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No one's mentioned that the BMW is using all four tires very effectively to lay down that lap, not relying on just the fronts to do most of the work. I don't want to start a FWD vs RWD debate, but fundamentally if two cars weigh the same, have the same gearing, horsepower, torque etc; the RWD in capable hands puts down faster laps...and can maintain those faster laps longer than FWD.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No one's mentioned that the BMW is using all four tires very effectively to lay down that lap, not relying on just the fronts to do most of the work. I don't want to start a FWD vs RWD debate, but fundamentally if two cars weigh the same, have the same gearing, horsepower, torque etc; the RWD in capable hands puts down faster laps...and can maintain those faster laps longer than FWD.</TD></TR></TABLE>

BULLSHIT!

FWD is Superior.

&lt;intherain&gt;

Scott, who lately knows mostly about NWD (No Wheel Drive)...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

BULLSHIT!

FWD is Superior.

&lt;intherain&gt;

Scott, who lately knows mostly about NWD (No Wheel Drive)...</TD></TR></TABLE>

See, doesn't take a 'Genius' to figure it out

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

See, doesn't take a 'Genius' to figure it out </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not saying it Always pays to be a Genius...but sometimes it can help...I think...

Scott, who is struggling with even more things to do to the kaa...for when I get back to being able to work on it...in lieu of driving it...till it's done...when I'll then drive it...and live happily (and fastly to be sure) ever after...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

but fundamentally if two cars weigh the same, have the same gearing, horsepower, torque etc; the RWD in capable hands puts down faster laps.</TD></TR></TABLE>

True, but again we are talking about a BMW that has approximately the same horsepower as the EP ITR and weighs 700 Pounds more.

Thats like driving the ITR around with a silverback gorilla asleep on the floor.

Surely the same HP, on slicks, minus a gorilla, can overcome that awful FWD and go a couple of seconds faster .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Surely the same HP, on slicks, minus a gorilla, can overcome that awful FWD and go a couple of seconds faster .</TD></TR></TABLE>

Or at least go *as fast*.

Karl, waiting for the complaints and going to bed...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

True, but again we are talking about a BMW that has approximately the same horsepower as the EP ITR and weighs 700 Pounds more.
.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, dats a lot of weight handicap.

But..... BMW = Torque!

H1 = 145 ft lbs?

BMW = what?...240 ft lbs?

 

Torgue does have alot to do with lap times. And the BMW has a good bit of it. But the RX7 that was running in the 2:10's does not. You are able to more to the engine then you think. Plus they changed the cylnder head prep rules. It no longer states that it has to be an IT head. You can replace the seats and have any valve angles. With the right cams and parts you can can proable get 210 at the wheels. I thought the 85 CRX in GP would be a no brainer. 1900# the hp of an ITA CRX, I thought I would defendately go faster then an ITA car has not happened yet.

You can change the final drive without a weight penalty, just don't change the gears ratios. You have to ask yourself are you willing to give it a couple years of testing different parts to get there. No one is fast right out of the box.

 

[QUOTE=bamcrxgp]Torgue does have alot to do with lap times. And the BMW has a good bit of it. But the RX7 that was running in the 2:10's does not. QUOTE]

What's the RX7's minimum weight?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What's the RX7's minimum weight?</TD></TR></TABLE>

depends on the year

ITS:

Mazda RX-7 (13B) (84-85) 2530
Mazda RX-7 (13B) (86-91) 2680

Also, the E36 BMW torque stock was 181. Even going .040 over isn't gonna get you close to 240, and the other IT legal mods only move the torque around. The 2.8 E36 made 204 tq stock. E36 BMW ITS weight is 2850.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[QUOTE=bamcrxgp]Torgue does have alot to do with lap times. And the BMW has a good bit of it. But the RX7 that was running in the 2:10's does not. QUOTE]

What's the RX7's minimum weight?</TD></TR></TABLE>

EP RX7 is 2350# for the 13B, 2250# for the 12A - this is from the '03 GCR - might have changed since.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J28S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm trying to figure out if a mildly prepped H1 car can run around a 2:09 with race slicks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I fully believe that is possible. The last VIR-full sprint I ran in H2 trim I turned a 2:14.xx on Hoosier R3S03's. With the lighter weight, 20+ or so whp, and more experience I fully believe a 2:09.xx is doable on slicks.

Granted, it all depends on the driver, but...

Mmmm...I love me some VIR full course