edit: i thought about it, and those forks are friggin useless. i am looking into replacing/rotating the upper arm anchors.


I can't get the car low enough for neg camber after a spring change. i have adj upper arms, but they are in all the way. yeah, i could slam the spring perch, but frankly, i do not like unloading the springs when unloading a wheel. any other recommendations will be greatly appreciated.


Modified by Rodney at 11:05 PM 8/26/2005

 

i think i just answered my own question... shortened forks will not increase camber, right? fugg me....

 

They'll increase neg camber if you lower the car more with them, i'd think.

Why not get longer springs up front?

 

longer springs?
umm... that will not do anything.

i am looking into possible upper anchor replacements or even rotating it around 180 degrees.

 

uhhh....front and rear camber kits??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SlapSmak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">uhhh....front and rear camber kits??</TD></TR></TABLE>


uhh... ok. thanks. anyone ever mess with rotating the upper anchors in the front?


Modified by Rodney at 11:19 PM 8/26/2005

 

A few weeks ago there were several rather long posts discussing tender springs. If you used them you could lower the spring perch and still have some spring rate when unloading an inside tire.

Are you talking about turning around the mounts for the upper arm? I ran some home made bushings on the upper arm a few years ago to gain camber without lowering the car much and had issues with clearance around the pivot point on the arm along with making the axle length borderline from moving the hub closer to the transmission. Aren't there some aftermarket camber adjusters that adjust the inner pivot?

 

How much camber you wanna run anyways? 10 deg?

Beyond lowering or sliding/adjustable ball joints and their limitations, the other possibilities are:

1-Longer custom LCAs. Or maybe the DC Integra ones are longer vs the EG? Something to look into.

2-Shorter custom UCAs. Or you can always cut/weld your UCAs. Depends on how much more camber you are shooting for. Maybe you can get enough by just slotting your existing adjustable ones deeper? Are those Skunk2 on there now?

3-Custom knuckle/hub together with 1 and 2. The most expensive option, but some major weight savings could be had there as well as geometry (roll centers, camber, bump-steer curves etc) optimization possible if you know what you are doing and do your homework. The most expensive option too, obviously, unless you are an awesome fabricator or good friends with one.

 

So your camber adjuster is maxed out, and you refuse to lower the spring perch...

Basically, you're SOL. The only solution would be to shorten your shocks or use a droop limiter - combined, of course, with lowering the car.

 

Bend the knuckle

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So your camber adjuster is maxed out, and you refuse to lower the spring perch...

Basically, you're SOL. The only solution would be to shorten your shocks or use a droop limiter - combined, of course, with lowering the car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i have short shocks, and my droop limiter is basically bottomed out.

 

How much of this is related to running the 225/50/15 710's? Are you having to run a higher ride height or stiffer spring to deal with the larger tire diameter? I assume you are trying to keep enough load on the inside tire to prevent lifting a front tire. As I said earlier, look at the tender spring ideas. Some guy named Daddio seems to be a big proponent of them specifically to help keep tires in contact with the pavement when lightly loaded. Or am I completely misunderstanding what you are trying to do, and avoid?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mohudsolo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much of this is related to running the 225/50/15 710's? </TD></TR></TABLE>

mostly. those tires are too damn tall...

 

I know it's kind of late, but did you ever look at the 225/50/14 710? It's listed as 22.8" tall versus 23.9 for the 15" with the same tread width and within .1" of section width. Of course the last I heard, the 14's were made of pure unobtainium since spring. If you ever want to try the 14's, let me know, I have a set of 14x8 Diamond steel wheels that I'd let you borrow.

If you want a good laugh, on sccaforums, the fast DSP BMW guy whose name I forget at the moment, is trying to convince people that until someone actually trys the 285/18 wheels on a ITR, he won't believe that they won't make one faster. Any thoughts on how you would fit tires another inch taller than the ones you are having issues with now? He also used a gearing comparison to show how the ITR has better gearing than his car.

Can we now start to get together enough people to pester the race tire guys to make a really wide tire less than 23" tall? I asked Hoosier last winter and they said not this year.

Good luck in Kansas and take out as many of them as you can.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mohudsolo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want a good laugh, on sccaforums, the fast DSP BMW guy whose name I forget at the moment, is trying to convince people that until someone actually trys the 285/18 wheels on a ITR, he won't believe that they won't make one faster. Any thoughts on how you would fit tires another inch taller than the ones you are having issues with now? He also used a gearing comparison to show how the ITR has better gearing than his car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Been saying that for a while now. Flares and a serious re-think of the suspension would be necessary, but the 245's are too narrow for the height penalty to be worth it and the next shortest wide-*** tire is the 285. Bleh. Somebody needs to do it to an RSX so there isn't so much backasswards-ness to deal with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mohudsolo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know it's kind of late, but did you ever look at the 225/50/14 710? It's listed as 22.8" tall versus 23.9 for the 15" with the same tread width and within .1" of section width. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, i saw those as of recently. in retrospect i should have went with those, but I haven't seen any in person though. it sucks when the wheels cost mid $300 each. i just ante'd up and bought another pair, so i have 4 very expensive purpose built 15x9's....

in reality, i amy just mess around with 2 camber kits. the one i have now (skunk2 arm) and inner anchor bolts.

oh, and a 285 on a civic/integra? although possible, it would crush the gearing, even with an SP illegal final swap. i have been tinkering around with 265/45's on 16x10, but that is too huge imho. the car would have to be stock height to get them under there.

 

I guess just a thought, Could cut and weld material in to the lower control arm to extend it to kick it out a smidge.

Just a thought i guess.

-s

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sander &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess just a thought, Could cut and weld material in to the lower control arm to extend it to kick it out a smidge.

Just a thought i guess.

-s</TD></TR></TABLE>

Welding cast iron is a huuuge PITA even if you're an awesome welder. On a relatively heavily stressed part such as a control arm, such a weld would surely crack/fail in no time.

 

Yeah I know, just a thought

Mabye custom castings? (kinda extreme i would imagine though)

-s

 

Hmmm, offset bushings (lower and/or upper) may be another option. Not adjustable of course, but then since he has adj UCAs it would be possible to back-off/dial-in as needed.

 

Before doing that, I would look at custom machined aluminum or fabricated steel arms. Done right, a box section arm would be lighter than stock and plenty strong in the necessary directions. It would probably not survive accident damage, so watch those off course excurions.

Per SM rules, only the stock mounting points need to stay intact, so the front suspension could be completely redesigned if you knew what you wanted it to do. Too bad none of that will make more room in the chassis for the taller tires.

 

so you're trying to lower the car after going to a stiffer spring but without moving the spring perch itself rather but by using the adjustable body length shocks you have. is their a true reason that you don't want the spring to move around loose when you jack up the car, or is it purely preference? from a dynamics point of veiw you would have a very unpredictable car if you topped out the shocks on a regular basis. also, you are probably not going to be unloading the inside front enough that it will go into droop. the sway bar will hold that spring compressed perfectly fine.

if it were me, i wouldn't worry about it. i'd set the damper length like rr98itr suggested in another thread a while back, then set the ride height that i want. if i still couldn't get the car low enough i'd go to a shorter spring. if i was REALLY worried about the spring rattling around on the perch once i jacked the car up, or if i thought i might need something to keep the front springs from decoupling at terminal roll, i'd look into a helper spring of about 225lbs and 3 inches long. (assuming you are using the springs you spoke about last time we talked.)

nate

 

Check your mail...I Have a question for you

Jeff

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by essex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bend the knuckle</TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess most people didn't pay attention or just ignored the above reply.

But this is actually what is commonly done in some racing series in Japan. Their group N rules are very restrictive and do not allow the use of camber kit. So what the teams do to their Hondas is to bend the knuckle to get the desired camber (oops can't do that to the DC5).

It won't be 100% accurate left and right, but at least it won't be any slippage for sure. In the US, we can adopt the same trick to start off with certain amount of camber, then use the camber kit to fine tune and make both sides equal.

 

bend the knuckle