This is in appendage to this thread. It basically is the story of the death of my alternator.

I went to pick the car up this morning and as I approached the mechanic told me to try to start it. I tried, it cranked over, but no start. There WAS spark. The fuel pump WAS running.

After a few more cranks grey/white smoke came pouring out of the area circled in red below. Almost like it was coming out of those air vents down there. (My car is an Auto, not Manual)


I pulled the middle console area and we looked around really thoroughly, even went as far as to pull off the black box that was covering up what I believe to be the SRS control module. We looked all underneath the dash we could. I even unhooked my radio and tried again with no luck. He mentioned that it could be the ignition.. but I'm not too sure about THAT theory given the car done everything else it needed to start... or so I thought.

I've checked all the fuses in the car and none of them were blown. Even checked all of the ones in the engine compartment. I can say that on occassion I did smell something that smelt like burning before while driving around but I dismissed it because it was very faint. The shop owner said whatever THAT is burning or shorting out, it probabily caused the alternator to die.

They warned me that the local car electrical guy rips people off and the next closest one isn't nearly as bad but I'm already in the hole as far as money goes already. The shop did not have any diagnostic equipment to do any type of testing for me either, althought they wanted to they didn't have the stuff.

SO with all that said, my question to you all is WHAT could be down there? I know it could be ANYTHING but realise that alot of stuff wasn't turned on. I mean its not like my tail lights were on. My cabin fans were OFF. My brake light wasn't being turned on.


Modified by Paprika at 8:30 AM 8/17/2005


Modified by Paprika at 8:31 AM 8/17/2005

 

eh what? Is everyone afraid?

I'm thinkin one thing I could try is pulling all my accessory fuses and then start pluggin them back in 1 by 1? Does that make any sense to do?

I mean only unhok ones that wouldn't disable the vehicle. Like lights, heater, etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paprika &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">eh what? Is everyone afraid?

I'm thinkin one thing I could try is pulling all my accessory fuses and then start pluggin them back in 1 by 1? Does that make any sense to do?

I mean only unhok ones that wouldn't disable the vehicle. Like lights, heater, etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>That is very odd, smoke should not be coming from that area. So you have spark and fuel but no go. What motor is in your EG? Any CELs? Lets start there..

 

We are talking about a D15B7.
CELs? Check Engine Lights? I think just normal light up when you attempt to start the car. I remember the Battery light coming on but thats because it was in RUN and the engine wasn't actually running.

Well wait, we actually don't know about the fuel thing. I heard a loud buzzing or humming noise coming from what sounded like behind MY seat somewhere near the floor, I asked the mechanic and he said it was probabily my fuel pump. Does it make that much noise at times?

Check this out, I trust their car knowledge but when the manager sparyed some starting fluid into my intake I started getting worried. lol

I'm looking at the diagrams and what not in the service manual and it appears the only two things back there are like the srs unit and the blower fan maybe.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paprika &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We are talking about a D15B7.
CELs? Check Engine Lights? I think just normal light up when you attempt to start the car. I remember the Battery light coming on but thats because it was in RUN and the engine wasn't actually running.

Well wait, we actually don't know about the fuel thing. I heard a loud buzzing or humming noise coming from what sounded like behind MY seat somewhere near the floor, I asked the mechanic and he said it was probabily my fuel pump. Does it make that much noise at times?

Check this out, I trust their car knowledge but when the manager sparyed some starting fluid into my intake I started getting worried. lol

I'm looking at the diagrams and what not in the service manual and it appears the only two things back there are like the srs unit and the blower fan maybe.</TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah the CEL (check engine light, sorry) will remain solid when the car isn't running. Under the dash on the passanger side jump the 2 pin service check connecor and urn the key to the ON position. If it just stays on your all good there. If there is blinking count the blinks to get the code, sorry if you already know this ****..

The loud humm coming from the back of the car is the fuel pump priming, this will happen each time you turn the key to the on position. This is normal.

Yeah based on the pic SRS control unit is right there. The blower fan is acutally behind the glove box nearly all the way to the passanger side. But both of these wouldn't cause the car not to start. I know this for a fact because both of these components are removed from my EJ.

Electrical problems can be rather bitch, you could have a break in a wire and the shielding could look fine. But like I said you have something else going on keeping it from starting.. As far as the smoke issue, the only way to really find the problem system is to pull the dash and first do a visual inspection, if that doesn't turn up anything continuity and resistance tests are next.

Find out if your computer is throwing a code, that is where to start as far as getting this bitch running again..

 

Ok I'll check for blinking cell tommorow.

Fuel pump priming eh? Ok.

I'm talking more along the lines of a shorted SRS unit or a Shorted blower motor.

Pulling the dash IS going to be a bia. I can see it now. Imma need a full tool kit on hand tommorow. Ugh!

I could use some input from others too please!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paprika &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok I'll check for blinking cell tommorow.

Fuel pump priming eh? Ok.

I'm talking more along the lines of a shorted SRS unit or a Shorted blower motor.

Pulling the dash IS going to be a bia. I can see it now. Imma need a full tool kit on hand tommorow. Ugh!

I could use some input from others too please!</TD></TR></TABLE>Like mentioned these components could not cause this issue, now if you had a bad short and it burnt up some critical wiring then this could keep the car from starting, but if it cranks and **** I highly doubt this would keep the car from running. Good luck, I'll check back later tomorrow to see how things went, good luck bro..

 

Well I just browsed the other post, did you get the alternator replaced/fixed? There could be wiring issues there that would keep the car from starting.. Lets just hope the ECU isn't fried... No CEL, No start, replace ECU with a known good one and retest..


Modified by HondaFanatic708 at 3:48 PM 8/17/2005

 

Getting a good ECU is going to be a trip, then not frying it with my already nortorious car...eh.

Yes the alternator got replaced with a new one. The old alternator is on a box behind me. lol what about the smoke.


Damnit!!

 

Well check this out mate... I couldn't find that service connector anywhere! The closest I came was some unhooked 2-pin plug under the hood but I believe it's for setting timing/tacometer.

See here:


Back when I ran custom speaker wire I cut the stock wires which are the blue and white ones which are hanging... RIIIIIIGHT?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paprika &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well check this out mate... I couldn't find that service connector anywhere! The closest I came was some unhooked 2-pin plug under the hood but I believe it's for setting timing/tacometer.

See here:


Back when I ran custom speaker wire I cut the stock wires which are the blue and white ones which are hanging... RIIIIIIGHT?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, those are speaker wires. The service connector is on the passenger side, not the driver side. Should be just above or in front of the ecu.

 

Darn. Tried looking there too, but nothing stuck out to me. Felt something rubbery but nothing really.

It's at another shop now anyway and I can't get to it. This sucks. I want my car back.

I hope its a simple fix and they fix it FAST.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paprika &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Darn. Tried looking there too, but nothing stuck out to me. Felt something rubbery but nothing really.
It's at another shop now anyway and I can't get to it. This sucks. I want my car back.

I hope its a simple fix and they fix it FAST.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The rubbery thing you felt is a holder for the service check connector and the connector for hooking up a scanner to the car. Just gently pull it down from under the dash and your good, but it seems like this is for future ref. since it's at another shop. When they fix it post what the issue was, I'm curious.. Your right about the one under the hood BTW.. Hope you get your ride back soon..

 

Yeah I do too man. Thanks for all your help.

However, I learned today that my the new mechanic I took it to yesterday had a faimly emergency in another state so heck.. ain't not tellin when he'll be back to look at it. So I'm always open to new possibilities.

It was our fear, during the testing after the new alternator had been installed, that cranking it over as we were could have already burned out the new alternator in the same fashion the old one died while in use, how strong is that possibility guys?


Modified by Paprika at 2:55 AM 8/20/2005

 

New revelations people.

I took the old alternator into Autozone this morning and it checked out to be in GOOD working order. WTF.. ok so this narrows my problem down to the electrical issue we had, where the smoke showed. Remember that?

I guess it all narrows down to that.

Time to pull the dash duckie but I need a kit together and need to get out to the car. Any full tutorials on pulling an EG dash?

Can I pull an EG dash without removing the steering wheel. Is it possible?


Modified by Paprika at 9:07 AM 8/20/2005

 

^BUMP^ for a quick reply.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paprika &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">New revelations people.

I took the old alternator into Autozone this morning and it checked out to be in GOOD working order. WTF.. ok so this narrows my problem down to the electrical issue we had, where the smoke showed. Remember that?

I guess it all narrows down to that.

Time to pull the dash duckie but I need a kit together and need to get out to the car. Any full tutorials on pulling an EG dash?

Can I pull an EG dash without removing the steering wheel. Is it possible?


Modified by Paprika at 9:07 AM 8/20/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, just drop the steering wheel down. Check the archived area for a write up or search for heater core DIY threads as it will show how to remove the dash.

 

Ok people, I went to visit the car today...

I looked for the service check jumper plug thingy and i didn't find one that matches the wire descriptions and location description given in the ECU thread FAQ thread stickied at the top of this forum.

I came up with two 2-pin connectors in that same area the service connector was suppose to be in, they were both grey but had different color wires:

1st one - 1 light-blue wire and 1 green wire w/ white stripe.
2nd one - 1 brown wire and 1 green wire w/ white stripe.

So i tried jumping both of them independently, even cross-jumped them (blue to brown, green to green, green to brown, etc..) and got no flashing of the CEL. It just reamained lit while in the ON position.

When I attempted to start the car.. it just remained LIT. No more smoke however.. whatever it was is prolly dead.

Also, we tried to check for spark by pulling the cap off one of the spark plugs and putting it near a grounded valve cover bolt while I cranked the car, but my friend didn't see any sparks jump, neither did I from inside the car... maybe it was a far fetched idea but it was worth a try. But we can't be fore sure, our experimentation may have been flawed but we didn't have a spare spark plug at the time.

 

Check for spark the same way but stick a screwdriver in the plugwire and place the metal part of the driver about 1'4 inch from any bolt, if you have spark it should throw one here. If you want to check for fuel try pulling the hose off the bottom of the fuel pressure reg carefully as it will be pressurised and put an empty coke can under the fpr nipple. turn the key to the "on" potition and then back off after a few seconds check to se if there is any fuel in the can, if not the pump is not working. even if you have a bad alternator your car should still start if it has a strong battery, might not run long but it should start given you have spark and fuel. hope that helps.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paprika &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok people, I went to visit the car today...

I looked for the service check jumper plug thingy and i didn't find one that matches the wire descriptions and location description given in the ECU thread FAQ thread stickied at the top of this forum.

I came up with two 2-pin connectors in that same area the service connector was suppose to be in, they were both grey but had different color wires:

1st one - 1 light-blue wire and 1 green wire w/ white stripe.
2nd one - 1 brown wire and 1 green wire w/ white stripe.

So i tried jumping both of them independently, even cross-jumped them (blue to brown, green to green, green to brown, etc..) and got no flashing of the CEL. It just reamained lit while in the ON position.

When I attempted to start the car.. it just remained LIT. No more smoke however.. whatever it was is prolly dead.

Also, we tried to check for spark by pulling the cap off one of the spark plugs and putting it near a grounded valve cover bolt while I cranked the car, but my friend didn't see any sparks jump, neither did I from inside the car... maybe it was a far fetched idea but it was worth a try. But we can't be fore sure, our experimentation may have been flawed but we didn't have a spare spark plug at the time.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It will remain lit if you are not throwing a code and you jump the connection. If the check engine light comes on without it jumped then you are throwing a code. When you throw a code you can get the code by then jumping the service connector. Basically, no check engine light= no code.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bond &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It will remain lit if you are not throwing a code and you jump the connection. If the check engine light comes on without it jumped then you are throwing a code. When you throw a code you can get the code by then jumping the service connector. Basically, no check engine light= no code.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well one has to remember that I don't even know if I jumped the right connector. Because the wire colors didn't match those which were stated in THIS thread.

What about the two connectors I mentioned in my reply, what are they?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paprika &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well one has to remember that I don't even know if I jumped the right connector. Because the wire colors didn't match those which were stated in THIS thread.

What about the two connectors I mentioned in my reply, what are they?</TD></TR></TABLE>I am almost positive the one with the brown is the service check connector. The only other 2 pin connector tha is in that area is one for the blower fan motor. At least according to the service manual. If you jump the one with the brown to itself the MIL will stay on with the key in the ON position if you don't have any codes. That will identify the right connector. Yeah you can get the dash out without removing the wheel, it's somewhat of a bitch but can be done..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaFanatic708 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am almost positive the one with the brown is the service check connector. The only other 2 pin connector tha is in that area is one for the blower fan motor. At least according to the service manual. If you jump the one with the brown to itself the MIL will stay on with the key in the ON position if you don't have any codes. That will identify the right connector. Yeah you can get the dash out without removing the wheel, it's somewhat of a bitch but can be done..</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well I went under the dash, near the passanger kickpanel and pulled down a green rubber protective cover which holds TWO different connectors. Both were in there. Totally independent of eachother. The blower motor was hooked up, I glanced over and see was plugged in, and it has been working anyway so I know these two plugs had nothing to do with the blower.

Also, what is MIL. Did you mean CEL?

See my fear is that the wiring running to the ECU is what fried out or whatever and it may have taken the ECU with it, and now the car won't start because of the short and/or the ECU being fried.

How much does a used ECU for a 92 DX Auto go for? I'd have to they control one of the most undesirable engines avalible so they can't go for much... ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paprika &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well I went under the dash, near the passanger kickpanel and pulled down a green rubber protective cover which holds TWO different connectors. Both were in there. Totally independent of eachother. The blower motor was hooked up, I glanced over and see was plugged in, and it has been working anyway so I know these two plugs had nothing to do with the blower.

Also, what is MIL. Did you mean CEL?

See my fear is that the wiring running to the ECU is what fried out or whatever and it may have taken the ECU with it, and now the car won't start because of the short and/or the ECU being fried.

How much does a used ECU for a 92 DX Auto go for? I'd have to they control one of the most undesirable engines avalible so they can't go for much... ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

MIL (malfuntion indicator light) CEL (check engine light) the same thing just a different term, sorry about the confusion factor.

So the two connectors you described cam out of the green rubber thing right? Like I said there are no other 2 pin connectors in that area. You may have a wire that isn't the proper color, I have run into this a few times. If they run out of a certain color at the factory they aren't going to stop the lines to wait for the order to come in, they will substitute.

As far as the ECU you may be lucky (probably not if the actual ECU wiring right by the passanger kick panel is fried, but lets hope its not) But I don't think an auto DX ecu should be any more than $30-$50. I'm sure you can find someone who did a swap in their DX. Try finding the shorts first and try the ECU again, maybe find a buddy with a known good ECU and plug it in for a test run before spending money.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaFanatic708 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As far as the ECU you may be lucky (probably not if the actual ECU wiring right by the passanger kick panel is fried, but lets hope its not) </TD></TR></TABLE>

Note where the smoke came from as inidcated in the inital post... I don't think the wires got fried right by the ECU.. everything there looked and smelled fine.


Lets say that there is a fry/melt or whatever in the harness. Patch repair it or get a new subharness for that area. I know the latter is the better idea but what do people usually do?