Well...the test is over...there is no clear winner. A fellow Honda-tech member, from this very forum with a FULL HyTech header, cat, exhuast with his Type-R graced the Dyno tonight.

I have to say, that entire system is a masterpiece of workmanship. The header is very nice looking, even though its not coated...it has that "Honda" quality look to it.. And the exhuast was absolutely the lightest thing I have ever felt. I was astonished. It was a feather. The Muffler was looked just like a Mugen Twin Loop and was very impressive. The welds were immaculate.

The 2 designs were different from top to bottom. The lengths of all the tubings were radically different. The HyTech had reversion chambers in it also.

The Hytech header was also about 3 inches longer than the SMSP one. The design of the HyTech was very creative, the way the pipes twisted inside of each other to fit into the narrow area between the flywheel cover and the oil pan. Ground clearance was decent.

On to the SMSP header.
The SMSP header was designed for maximum ground clearance and you would pretty much hit the oil pan at the same time you hit the header. The only thing is you have to take off the flywheel cover, with this particular model. This header is my test Mule, with a 2.5 inch collector, it is also adjustable from the secondaries.

I have no pictures of the procedure... but I have a few witnesses. The owner of the Type-R from here, a very nice guy who has a bad *** car, my mechanic, and a few other of my consultant friends at IB. The owner of the Type-R worked with me to take on and off each header on BOTH cars...

His car made GREAT HP on the dyno with only bolt ons...

It should be noted that the IB "Killer" intake was used in this test...we believe this intake to be the best on earth, and we were fortunate to have the best 2 headers for Honda on earth on the same car in 1 nite...so it was a fun evening...even though it was VERY hard work.

Bring the charts....The tests are straight forward...and I will not argue about any findings, or whatever...the results are clear..and they suggest that the 2 headers go Hand in Hand with the best header you can buy for your car. period.

Choose which company you like...you can't lose either way.

Charts here:


Above shows the
BLUE line (Hytech 179.8/127.2)
RED line (SMSP 180.1/128.1)
Its pretty close...the HyTech has a huge jump up in HP right after VTEC, and the SMSP has an area after that, its a few HP better...pretty much the same graphs, from a racing perspective.

BLUE LINE: SMSP
RED LINE: HyTech
(the Type-R chart is HyTech BLUE line..so it could get confusing..)

This is a GSR motor with CTR pistons, and JUN Type 3 cams..with Type-R intake manifold. That is all. Well and some bad *** headers on it...
The SMSP was slightly better after VTEC, but it was close. The HyTech was better before VTEC, and we think this is so because it looked like, visually, the collector on the HyTech was a few MM smaller...just a few. In 1 small section.
Still...the graphs are pretty similar from a road racing, or Drag racing perspective.

The exhuast that was used was a $90 muffler shop special, with NO CAT. Free breathing. The IB "Killer" intake was also used.

So..there you have it... The test is done, and the test was pretty thourough since it was tested on 2 motors, 1 stock, and 1 high compression with big cams. BOTH motors are STOCK BORE 1.8 liters.

I was VERY impressed by the weight of that HyTech exhaust. A nice piece. Of note also, was that with both headers, that HyTech exhuast sounded like stock...meaning it was VERY quiet. Impressive.

Jeff


[Modified by ImportReview, 9:19 AM 2/20/2002]

 

 

Hmm I was figuring there been more then basically around 1whp difference which you wouldn't be able to tell except with dyno.

 

cool
Now what exactly is the IB "killer" intake? I am interested...

 

So how much are the 2 headers? I think I saw that the Hytech is $1300, how about the SMSP?

 

Wow. Closer than I expected. Different though. The Hytech has a bigger spike after VTEC. I'd also like to know about this "killer intake"

 

I'm interested this as well.

Great info Jeff!

 

from the graph it lookslike a 10hp diff in tq at 5-5.5 rpm. i guess this is from the slightly smaller collector?? but tq looks like after 6k the smsp was doing better. but the graphs were pretty close, but the price difference??? you pay for art ill pay performance. '
what was the stock hp and tq?

and whats this IB "KILLER" ? how much hp or tq does tis add to the stock r? do you think this swayed the tets one way or the other? (i dont know im just wondering....)


[Modified by cali-r, 9:38 AM 2/20/2002]


[Modified by cali-r, 9:41 AM 2/20/2002]

 

Hytech got a pretty good mid-range SMSP is not bad at all.

 

nice review Jeff may people have wanted to know this for a long time

 

SMSP, all the way.

 

just what I thought, good test, but just think if dave would of tunned that header for the car. could be differant. and its 400 less, even though the wait is so long

but all in all SMS
Hytech

 

on the tests.....

Were these cars tuned to the headers or just slapped on and run?

What a/f did the headers like? And how did they differ from one another?

 

Interesting results Jeff...
Austin

 

I've seen both headers in person and agree they are very high quality units. I agree with George on this. With the support SMS Products has given to Honda Challenge, I'd go with him. Another hometown favorite!!

Thanks,
Victor Perri II

 

I totally agree with George as well.. SMSP

Dave drove all the way down to VIR (3.5 hour trip), just to give Warren his new header, so he could see how it performed

 

thanks Jeff. Good job. Can you please put up just the torque curves comparisons by themselves without the hp and identify which is which?

 

I like Hytech power curve, a bit more than SMSP graph. Both great, but I'll take Hytech complete system any day. I like it quiet.

CB

 

I first want to give Jeff a big thumbs up for taking the time and doing a test that many wanted to see. This did take time away from his business.

I just want to clear some things up on the particular header that Jeff used. This header was built very quickly one evening after I received a call from Jeff back in April of 2001. He said he needed an extra header to be sent out in the morning to be used on their car for an upcoming race. The engine was a B20VTEC. I didn't have all the pieces needed in stock to build a "B20VTEC" header that night so I built it for the largest collectors I had. I also shortened the first diameter tubing in the primary and added length for the stepped section, increased the diameter of the secondaries and removed the taper in the final collector all in hopes of increasing flow for a B20. It was also configured to be used with no A/C or fans in the stock location. This probably caused some aggravation for Jeff during the install. Some sections of the header were actually mig welded (to save time) and the header was obviously not coated but just painted with hi temp black paint. The header is by no means a show piece but it did go out that next morning.

The header then made its way on sgt's car for a race in May where he blew a head gasket, Butch Bouldin's Civic for a few passes during the summer and a few others. It has become sort of a test mule because it is frankly too ugly to sell.

So in conclusion, this is not the same header I build for the ITR and GSR engines. The current ITR header (like the one on Warren's car) is longer and probably longer than the HyTech header since it needs about a 4"-5" long test pipe. While the diameters of the primary sections of this test header and ITR/GSR headers are the same, the lengths of the sections are different. The secondaries on the ITR and GSR header are slightly smaller and the collector is tapered in the ITR/GSR header where this collector was a full 2.50" OD.

 

good job jeff I have been waiting for this for along time.


i wonder how good the sms itr header is compared to the header they tested. But any way SMSP is I think i changed my mind of what header i will be getting. hmmm.....



[Modified by Type R, 9:55 AM 2/20/2002]

 

I have 2 more SMSP headers here... 3 total.

And in a few weeks, I will probably have a 4th. All different.

As a favor to Dave, I will test them all on some different motors. Mike K has one with a 2.50 inch collector, I have a similar piece. And Dave is now making a 2.75 inch collector one for my:

3/4 inch deck plate,
1.86 Rod/Stroke Ratio
2.0 Liter
TWM individuals
TYPE-R MOTOR

Just wait until you see how much that thing makes at 10,000 RPM!! ha!

Jeff


[Modified by ImportReview, 6:13 AM 2/21/2002]

 

I need your address

Good work, Jeff. Get ready for the supa kine carne, Sunday.

 

I'm not too familiar with the coatings SMSP uses on his headers but I would still prefer a header done in SS....

Our coastal weather coupled with the generous saltings during the winter really make for some interesting corrosion.

Does anybody know if the SMSP header is done in SS?

[edit] just sent Dave a PM but posted here just so everybody knows.....

 

Nice work Jeff!

 

In one of his other posts, Dave stated that he would probably be offering his revised ITR 4-2-1 in SS by the summer. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=130037&page=2