well guys this is my setup going to be hopefully:

*build b16 head with new valves, GSR exh/ITR int cam combo, p&p, dual valvesrpings and ti-retainers with new valve seals and valve adjusted
*block b16 block with manley rods, arias 83mm 9.0:1 CR pistons, stock b16 crank micropolished and all using OEM bearings, darton sleeved, GSR oil pump, Si water pump, PE timing belt, new tensioner, oil pan..etc
*99 hydro b16 tranny with new seals and bearings, carbon coated syncros and Quafie 1.5 way LSD
*turbo setup: Full-Race Garret GT35R turbo kit, 3" cat, 3" exhaust kit
*fuel setup: braided fuel lines, walbro 255 low pressure, OEM fuel rail, 880cc injectors, Aeromotive adjutable fpr
*management: AEM EMS, Si harness, AEM wideband with real time reading gauage, laptop

fuel will be pump gas which is 91 Octance Rating in my area, so here are the questions:
1- Whats the max whp i should be exapecting from this setup?
2- Is GT35R turbo an overkill for this engine when using 91 OR fuel?
3- Which clutch/flywheel combo i should use? single or twin?and which brand?
4- Whats the MAX boost for this fuel and still be safe? 18psi?
5- Is upgrading my stock b16 IM/TB to a ITR IM/TB worth it in my occasion? and will it fit? or should i just stick with my stock mani?

thanks for your help guys thats in advance,
Km


Modified by IntegraTypeR at 12:19 PM 8/2/2005


Modified by IntegraTypeR at 9:17 PM 8/5/2005

 

any help here guys?

 

i gonna take a stab at it, however the info is probably going to be a little off, just from what ive learned on here.

on 91 with 9:1 compression my guess is ull be able to hit somewhere in the 350 range??

with the 83 bore i think the gt35 would be a good size.

Im going to be running an action 2md, looking for 350-400 whp on an 84 mm bore. Lots of guys on here like exedy, and ACT it seems. I dont see any need for a twin disk at this power level.

As far as #s of boost, sure 18, i donno

I wouldnt bother going to a type r, if anything, alot of people have had success with the skunk2 IM, if you want more top end, go with the JG.

Helped as best i could, someones going to correct this

 

with good tuning and enough fuel i would expect a lot more than 350hp with a GT35R, also depends on other things like your IC setup and stuff

 

just updated my info to get better response!

 

bump still need more help guys!

 

There are too many variables to answer your questions. No one is going to know any numbers, although I can make some up if you'd like.

But as far as clutches, twin disc beats out the single disc competition by ten fold. We'd all have twin discs if we could afford it. I, however, am poor and always buy Clutch Speciaties clutches because they are cheap as dirt. They are also incredibly unconfortable, but they hold the power and I can't complain for $200.

 

thats why i made this post cause am not rich and want to know parts to fuel capability before i spend money in the wrong place!

any more help guys?

 

I'm not exactly sure what the point of this thread is, so I'll just pick through your post and give you my two cents.

Arias pistons are good. I used to have them in my z6 and they worked great. But I used CP pistons in my new build because I sincerely believe CP to be the best of the best. A set of CP pistons will have virtually no variance from piston to piston. Also, CP has a built in piston-to-wall clearance so assembling the shortblock is a snap. You don't even need the pistons for the bore/hone.

Also, micropolishing the crank really doesn't do anything unless your crank already has problems. I just got my crank back from Benson after getting it balanced and micropolished. The journals basically look the same. I probably could have achieved the same results with a scotch-brite pad. My opinion: pay for a balance if you want, don't pay extra for a micropolish.

As for the Darton sleeves - I would go with Benson. For the same price as Darton, you can be getting the awesome machine work of Dan Benson as well as the incredible help and customer support of Earl.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> carbon coated syncors</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well I don't know what you've heard, but the carbon synchros don't really do anything. The only reason that I (or probably anyone else) will use carbon synchros is because I'm always destroying my 2-3-4 synchros and Gear Speed offers the "carbon coated" replacements for much cheaper than OEM synchro sets.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">walbro 255 low pressure,</TD></TR></TABLE>

You might as well get the high pressure model, it costs the same and can handle more HP. The only trade off is that the high pressure model makes a loud and very annoying whistling sound.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">*management: AEM EMS, Si harness, AEM wideband with real time reading gauage, laptop</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are on a budget, yet you want to blow your money on this crap? So much stuff you are listing is... Well, it just sounds like you've been spending too much time with the kiddie dreamers outside of the technical forums. The way I got really educated on what's what in the aftermarket world was by browsing ebay, then researching the parts I found by reading the H-T archives.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1- Whats the max whp i should be exapecting from this setup?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know, and I won't guess. There is no need to ask this because you don't actually have anything going yet and are still in the "dreamer" stage of your build. By the time you actually finish your build, probably everything on your list will be different because you will have become more educated.

Buttttttttt... Since you plan on running a sleeved block with forged internals, I'd say the max whp is whatever the turbo maxes out at.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2- Is GT35R turbo an overkill for this engine when using 91 OR fuel?</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's irrelevant. Boost is boost. The turbo won't matter.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3- Which clutch/flywheel combo i should use? single or twin?and which brand?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The flywheel I have on my y8 is an 8lb ACT prolite. I like it I guess. I didn't really notice that big of a difference going from stock. I didn't have to "shift faster" or anything. But It did kill my synchros much faster than a factory flywheel would have.

As for the clutch, you can *try* to find a full-faced disc that will hold, but in reality you will probably have to go with a 6-puck. Look for a sprung disc, it helps the longevity of the clutch.

As far as brands, Competition Clutch has a really good reputation and the prices aren't half bad. As I already stated, I use Clutch Specialties. It's cheap and it gets the job done, but it does get really ******* old having to daily drive with it after a while.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4- Whats the MAX boost for this fuel and still be safe? 18psi?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know, who cares.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">5- Is upgrading my stock b16 IM/TB to a ITR IM/TB worth it in my occasion? and will it fit? or should i just stick with my stock mani?</TD></TR></TABLE>

An intake mani and TB should be at the very BOTTOM of your list with a turbo setup. I just spent $5,000 on my motor/turbo setup and I still refuse to blow money on an aftermarket TB or manifold. These things just aren't important like they would be on an NA setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EnzoSpeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's irrelevant. Boost is boost. The turbo won't matter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

different turbos have different efficency ranges... which means your going to have dif intake charge temps... different air density.. so its acutally not irrelivent..

however i dont think he should limit himself to pump gas with that setup.. especially since there is probably 10G's worth of **** on that list

 

cool ita bout time somebody replies with some serious point of view....well let me give it out as points:

1-about the pistons and microplishing the crank its part of the garage offer where i attend to do the build....they have done many blocks and heads and everybody seems to be happy with their wonderful work and the only disadvantage about them that they are sometime slow and really busy...the sleeves are open and they were priced for me cheaper than Benson offer (i know you get what u pay for, but for darton price i knew thats what i need to save my $$)....if u were in my place doing things in different places on one thing will make chances of error to increase! prefer doing it all at one place so if anything happens wrong i know who to blame thats if it was their mistake!

2- about the syncros coating i had my tranny build and has an LSD already and the case looked really bad so i polished it and carbon caoting was part of the polishing case offer so i said why not if its part of the offer!

3-walbro low pressure: hmm well i comapred the graph at their site and did some research about it and it seems anything above +65psi i think static fuel pressure is very bad for cumbustion cylinders using 91 OR and from there i knew i dont need the high pressure type i read allot it was mainly used with FMU and i dont attend to use that!

4- about the AEM stuff which i know is pricey, but i need something that can do both real time reading and datalogging since am gonna do the tuning all myself....well i tuned cars before, but all were piggy backs and know AEM is a standlaone that has more to look into than piggybacks but am ready to learn.....if u think of a standloane close to AEM features and still OBDII let me know cause i cant find one....need OBDII for emission reasons and when ECU replacement comes in just put my P2T back in with no boost. i like the features of the AEM its has the capability fo retarding timing by looking into a temp table and for example like 2 degrees of timing for 10 deg cilcesuis (sp?) for engine reliability since like other poeple like i personally dont want to WOT on my car in the hot summer here where its hot and temp reaches 114 F

5-about the turbo part i got allot of poeple telling me my engine gonna bog allot when i use 91 OR using the GT35R especially low end and am afraid of breaking my engine if thats gonna happen, so thats why am asking about it being an overkill or not and wanted an estimate on the power range where i can see this turbo can produce from my engine....it doesnt have to be exact!

6-after knowing my what this turbo capable off i was going to do the rest of my search on which clutch to choose from....from my knowledge these FWD engine dont produce allot of torque using 91OR so i was aiming at a single clutch but if i have by any chance access for race gas a twin plate clutch that is already in the tranny wont hurt....by the way that would save me time since twin plate have long life compared to single if both are driven the same way!

7-about the max boost that was just a curious question cause i read allot of posts here where poeple going above 18psi is gonna damage the cylinder chamber and was just checking upon that, thats all! well am sorry if i only thought of it carefully at the time i started this post i could have just tried the turbo and increase boost gradually and tune it to its max point where error is low or none so its all in the tunning capabilities! just to make sure engine life is important to you guys that am gonna do an NA, 4, 7, 9, 11psi tunes until i know my engine is taking it well and at the same time trust my tunes...by the way thats street tuned and gonna be conservative on the tune!


*about the b16 IM do u think i should leave it stock and bore the stock TB to something like 60-65mm? cause am thinking the same way about the IM/TB thing, but thought why not shoot the Q to see if it really makes a difference or is the B16 IM not boost friendly?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Zakar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

different turbos have different efficency ranges... which means your going to have dif intake charge temps... different air density.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't see how that's possible. Sure, they have different efficiency ranges, but I don't see how that affects IATs. Maybe someone can explain it to me.


Modified by EnzoSpeed at 3:48 PM 8/2/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraTypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

4- about the AEM stuff which i know is pricey, but i need something that can do both real time reading and datalogging since am gonna do the tuning all myself....well i tuned cars before, but all were piggy backs and know AEM is a standlaone that has more to look into than piggybacks but am ready to learn.....if u think of a standloane close to AEM features and still OBDII let me know cause i cant find one....need OBDII for emission reasons and when ECU replacement comes in just put my P2T back in with no boost. i like the features of the AEM its has the capability fo retarding timing by looking into a temp table and for example like 2 degrees of timing for 10 deg cilcesuis (sp?) for engine reliability since like other poeple like i personally dont want to WOT on my car in the hot summer here where its hot and temp reaches 114 F </TD></TR></TABLE>

Screw that. I use uberdata to tune all my setups. I mean, after I pass smog I get two whole years to run OBD-1. When it comes time to smog again, I just swap my P2P back in. Uberdata is not some caveman tuning device like some people claim it is. It actually has lots of cool features, definitely enough for a very safe and reliable tune.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">from my knowledge these FWD engine dont produce allot of torque using 91OR so i was aiming at a single clutch but if i have by any chance access for race gas a twin plate clutch that is already in the tranny wont hurt....by the way that would save me time since twin plate have long life compared to single if both are driven the same way!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why are you so obsessed with the 91 octane gas? WHO CARES! NOTHING IN YOUR SETUP SHOULD BE BASED ON THE FACT THAT YOU CAN ONLY GET 91 OCTANE! I live in cali too, and the gas isn't the **** water you are making it out to be. My JRSC civic has never had a problem with detonation (ever) and I run the **** out of it. And that little sucker makes lots of torque.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">7-about the max boost that was just a curious question cause i read allot of posts here where poeple going above 18psi is gonna damage the cylinder chamber</TD></TR></TABLE>

What the hell? What you need to do is stop talking to the Neanderthals outside of the FI forum. You can run 30psi on Darton sleeves if you tune it right. 18psi is small potatos.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">*about the b16 IM do u think i should leave it stock and bore the stock TB to something like 60-65mm? cause am thinking the same way about the IM/TB thing, but thought why not shoot the Q to see if it really makes a difference or is the B16 IM not boost friendly?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're REALLY insist on fooling with your throttle body, just match it to your charge piping. For example, if you are using 2.5" charge pipes, then you will want a 64mm throttle body for a seamless transition.

As for the manifold - any manifold it existence will be boost friendly because the air is being forced through it instead of the engine working to pull it in. Sure, you can get a better flowing manifold that will put less backpressure on your exhaust turbine, but the bigger difference with swapping IMs is that your powerband will shift around. I personally like the broad midrange powerband that my stock IM gives me.

 

1- well i can use OBDII wiring harness and use convertor to use OBDI chipped ECU like most are doing, but which of these Uberdata,chrome,...etc have the real time reading and the datalogging reading facility?

2- am overseas but my engine build is being done in cali and when i buy parts i get them shipped to Cali where the build is at and where i live overseas it reaches 114 Degrees F , so if it gets that hot why wouldnt i be frightened, so i would not call it obssession but would call it taking it more sensistive and by the way 91 OR is the best fuel we have here! and here we dont use the Octane Rating unit (OR), but use the Research Octane Number unit (RON) and ourt fuel here is 95RON.

3-its not only the cylinder pressure here but when u use 91 OR u have to retard allot of timing and suddenly u realise u cant reatrd any more timing cause you exceeded standalone/ecu timing limits!

4-about the TB diameter i would say that was a nice advice there and thanks for that input!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraTypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1- well i can use OBDII wiring harness and use convertor to use OBDI chipped ECU like most are doing, but which of these Uberdata,chrome,...etc have the real time reading and the datalogging reading facility?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not sure about Crome, but Uberdata certainly has real time datalogging.

 

what about datalogging? any OBDI ECUs that can do that for price lower than AEM?

 

here are the obd1 ecu programs

crome - no datalogging
crome pro - datalogging, real time programming, lambda trace, etc, possible future upgrade of auto tune
neptune - datalogging
uberdata - datalogging

 

Uberdata + Ostrich + PLX Wideband = everything you need to datalog and tune on the fly. That's what I use. I have a laptop mounted in my car and whenever I feel like doing some fine tuning I just power up and adjust my maps.

 

how much did u pay for this all including the OBDI ecu? am assuming you are using a P28 right? and how was the install of this equipment? can it do auotmapping for partial tunes? or is it still no available yet on uberdata?

let me go through the part list here:

OBD2b wiring harness
OBD2b to OBDI convertor harness
chipped OBDI P28 ecu and Uberdata
Ostrich
PLX wideband

let me know if i missed something here!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraTypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much did u pay for this all including the OBDI ecu?</TD></TR></TABLE>

P28 - chipped and socketed with a nokia cable - $180
PLX - $310 shipped
Cheap PII laptop - $150
Ostrich - $175
OBDII-&gt;OBDI conversion harness - $70
Moates EPROM Burner (optional) - $80

Total - $965


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> how was the install of this equipment?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Everything is plug and play. If you are not good with electronics, then pay someone to chip and socket the P28 for you.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> can it do auotmapping for partial tunes? or is it still no available yet on uberdata?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know what that means.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
let me go through the part list here:

OBD2b wiring harness - Your car already has one
OBD2b to OBDI convertor harness
chipped OBDI P28 ecu and Uberdata
Ostrich
PLX wideband
And maybe an EPROM burner
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

why the nokia cable? whats the use of that? is it USB?

the autotune feature is for partial tunes. it lets the ECU fills the fuel map tbale by using the wdeband values as refernce u just have to set your goal A/F ratio and does the low cam fuel map for you!

is there a way for putting two maps on the ubderdata and load either by a switch or something?


Modified by IntegraTypeR at 11:40 AM 8/4/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraTypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why the nokia cable? whats the use of that? is it USB?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, it's USB. There are currently 2 ways to interface your ECU with your laptop - one is the nokia cable ($10) and the other is the "Hulog" from moates.net ($35).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the autotune feature is for partial tunes. it lets the ECU fills the fuel map tbale by using the wdeband values as refernce u just have to set your goal A/F ratio and does the low cam fuel map for you!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Man, I only wish uberdata could do that.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is there a way for putting two maps on the ubderdata and load either by a switch or something?</TD></TR></TABLE>

There are two ways to do that. One way is to plug your ostrich into your laptop and re-program it with a different map. The other way is to burn a separate eprom for each map you have so you can swap them.

So for example, when I go to the track and want to load my high boost map, I remove my "street" eprom and plug in my "track" eprom.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Benjithx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with good tuning and enough fuel i would expect a lot more than 350hp with a GT35R, also depends on other things like your IC setup and stuff</TD></TR></TABLE>


on 91 octane, i wouldnt shoot too high for numbers...

 

so u think GT30R would be more practical for me?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostjunkie757 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


on 91 octane, i wouldnt shoot too high for numbers...</TD></TR></TABLE>


so u think a GT30R turbo would be more practical for me?