I guess Shep got NHRA's head turning. If that the case, why are the still holding out on the 4 cylinder RWD. Its not like there are any fast enough to run away with the class.

http://www.nhrasportcompact.co...id=10



Modified by Turbo Ric at 2:01 AM 7/26/2005

 

so do they read h-t often?

 

this could be really good for the class because 1) its gets more competitors in the class and 2) it can make the class exciting by making a Honda vs. DSM kinda like Ford vs. Chevy..

Could be bad, because they can really fly. Either way, anything to make the sport grow..

 

Its a good deal but everyone still has to catch the GM boys...

 

Yeah Art they really fly ,but the 2 DSM's out there are running the average honda times so i think it will be awesome racing. its about time that nhra woke up. i just never saw how the AWD cars fit in modified where the cars are now running 7.13s with an averge time of 7.50.

 

It was the stupidest thing I ever heard of to put them into Modified, anyway. Nobody thought that it made sense. 8.43 as opposed to 7.13 and the DSMs use mostly stock driveline components. This was a no brainer several years ago when they came up with this....

 

Now the only problem is getting them to be reliable. Shep hurt alot of trans parts this weekend after that 8.4 pass, but you better believe they are already figuring it out and getting the new chassis stuff ready for 2006.

Good job Jim, just a little insight for you also.
The 52mm turbos do not work. Found out the hard way this weekend.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NDRATECH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Good job Jim, just a little insight for you also.
The 52mm turbos do not work. Found out the hard way this weekend.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What does that mean Glenn? Are they too small? or is it that the are still going to fast with it?

PS!!!! why not allow 4 cyl RWD in as well?

 

Ric, too small?? 2.59 sec to build 24lbs of boost at 6900 RPM on the two step. Never hit the two step though.

Both cars went from 1.05/1.06 60foot to 1.19/1.21 60 foot. Those are drag radial times.

Not to mention, Brent Rau ran 7.21 and 7.13.

Because the class is allowed to be backhalved. How can a 4 cyl FWD/AWD car run with a 4cyl back half car? It cant.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NDRATECH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ric, too small?? 2.59 sec to build 24lbs of boost at 6900 RPM on the two step. Never hit the two step though.

Both cars went from 1.05/1.06 60foot to 1.19/1.21 60 foot. Those are drag radial times.

Not to mention, Brent Rau ran 7.21 and 7.13.

Because the class is allowed to be backhalved. How can a 4 cyl FWD/AWD car run with a 4cyl back half car? It cant.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Hopefully we can get more 4 cylinder cars and more 6 cylinder cars and hopefully we can have 2 classes. OR!!!! just put all the 4cylinder RWD cars in a class of its on period. doesn't matter what type of chassis you have.its proven that a tube chassis 4 cylinder can run good numbers, Just put certain weight penalties depending on the style of chassis for a 4 cylinder class.Maybe lets say a tube chassis carbon fiber bodied car would weigh a certain amount vs an all steel bodied tube chassis car would weigh a certain amount vs a car with the strut towers,fire wall and floor intact be allowed to weigh a certain amount.

i think this would bean awesome class and alot more afordable due to the fact that alot of 4 cylinder motors are cheaper the 2jz's GM wrote a book and ECTOTEC motors on e-bay go as low as $199 for a complete motor.and a 2rz-fe 2.4 toyota tacoma motor goes on the average of $550. So with that said,there would be Extra money to go towards other "GO FAST" goodies and SAFETY(of course) to were the average grassroots racer can afford to run this typr of class.Just call it PRO 4Cylinder OUTLAW RWD. especially with the different style chassis would make good grudge matches. just like in PRO MODS with the blower cars vs the N20 cars.

 

Also the 6cylinder guys can run the biggest turbo they want if they had their own 6cylinder Outlaw class. i think it would make for awesome racing as well.

 

no need to split the outlaw/modified classes. as brent proved when he finally stopped sandbagging, the 4cyl.'s can run w/ the 6cyl. cars. you make a class for the 4cyl. cars and you'll have the same problem we have today, brent will kill everyone in sight, no one will stand a chance. the disparity in competition is not due to the engine size, it's due to the difference in money between the haves and the have nots. if you let justin and paul switch to 4cyl. 3rz's with their budgets they'd be just as dominant.

 

Why not leave 3/4 chassis 4cyl. cars (Brent) in Outlaw, and move true back half cars (Luis, Dee) into Pro 4 cyl. with some limitations on them?
That would make for good racing and tons of new rivalries.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NDRATECH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why not leave 3/4 chassis 4cyl. cars (Brent) in Outlaw, and move true back half cars (Luis, Dee) into Pro 4 cyl. with some limitations on them?
That would make for good racing and tons of new rivalries.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now you're talking crazy. RWD cars with clutchless transmissions VS. FWD cars with stock gearboxes? The hot rod cars are running very close to their potential, while the back half cars are far from it. If anything, put them in PRO FWD, that class could use some help!

 

Just Bench racing Tony, only pointing the bad scenarios out to everyone. We already know several of the changes for next year, and none will involve adding new rwd cars to the Pro 4 class for 2006.

 

ok, thanks, Shep is giving us a hard enough time as it is!! lol

 

No problem. Just wait till you see Sheps new set - up for next year.

 

I agree and disagree with you. i think alot of people out there doesn't realize or know how hard Brent is pushing that motor.60psi is crazy boost in my book. and i'm sure he is going through that motor after every round like a top fuel car.Not every grass roots racer can do that is what i'm pointing out. But like you said...the people with money will come out and dominate as usual. I just think that the 4cylinder cars just have to push there motors a little harder than the 6 cylinder guys. and keep in mind we haven't seen what the 350z cars can and will do yet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Now you're talking crazy. RWD cars with clutchless transmissions VS. FWD cars with stock gearboxes? The hot rod cars are running very close to their potential, while the back half cars are far from it. If anything, put them in PRO FWD, that class could use some help!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I see your point Tony, But isnt that the same as FWD with same trans kenny, Brian and R, L. is running. I know Glenn already said no. But there are still so many cars out there with out a propper class. Besides there need to be a class out there that is open for all drive train. Sorry Glenn just food for thought.

 

Well, the xtrac is one definite advantage over the stock honda gearbox, but I think it's a necessary evil. The honda box won't consistently hold the power and for there to be competetive racing they should allow a substitute. It sucks that the only one costs so much. Now, you throw RWD on top of that advantage, and you've got a class killer. You take a honda motor, put it in a rwd backhalved car with a g force trans, and you've got an easy 7.70 car. You just can't get the 60' times in a fwd car with a 28" tire and no slipper clutch. You can only make up so much on the back half of the track. A back half car that's setup right, even on a small tire, will 60' better than a fwd car on a 28" tire any day.

 

they should allow full unibody chassis 4cyl./rotary powered rwd cars in hr.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, the xtrac is one definite advantage over the stock honda gearbox, but I think it's a necessary evil. The honda box won't consistently hold the power and for there to be competetive racing they should allow a substitute. It sucks that the only one costs so much.
&lt;snip&gt;</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know that it actually costs that much more over the long term to run an Xtrac, compared to stock-based transmissions. Once you figure in the cost of having multiple, built gearboxes on hand, and constantly replacing broken/worn out parts, I wouldn't be surprised if using an H-pattern box ends up being just about as expensive over the course of the season. I think racers would be pissed if they looked at what they spent keeping their Honda gearbox alive at the end of the year and realized they were spending the equivalent of the cost of a sequential trans but actually ended up with a garage full of broken gearboxes bought on the installment plan.

Now, if you only run a couple events a year, I can understand why it doesn't make sense to put all that money out up-front, but I'll be really surprised if many traveling pros keep using them in Hot Rod/P4C after this season.

 

Oh, I completely agree, the Xtrac is worth every penny. It's just that alot of people can put out $1000 16 times rebuilding a honda trans way before they can put out $16000 to buy an xtrac. From what i've seen, alot of racers aren't willing to go into debt with credit cards or loans. If it was me, i'd have been at the bank the day xtrac told me the trans was available. Gotta pay to play.

 

I hear that. Unfortunately, HR/P4C aren't good classes if you're a "cash & carry" racer.

I'd suggest that people who don't want to get into debt to build a competitive car should drop down into SFWD or T4, but it seems like every kind of sport compact racing totally runs away from the guy trying to stick to a budget, and those "sportsman" classes are turning into Hot Rod Jr. with costs to match. There has to be someplace for a racer who wants to run a power adder 4 cyl FWD car heads-up, but can't afford to build a single-digit car. That's gonna be the biggest challenge for NHRA and NDRA - to build some rungs on the ladder between brackets and needing a competition license and major coin to be competitive.

 

I think people on a budget should run in the street tire classes. In those classes, turbo specifically, it's especially not all about power, nor will you break nearly as many parts. There will be alot of driver skill involved in those classes, which is something you can't buy!