So here's the past and present of this issue.

Orignally I had Azenis and bad alignment. The alignment on the front was toed out and quickly ran my azenis bald. Therefore I decided to get new tires (Hankooks) and an alignment at the same time.

After a 4 wheel alignment and new tires mounted and balanced I was getting a steering wheel vibration above 60mph and it worsened at 70mph.

So I took the wheels back to Discount tire and had them rebalanced.

Same problem.. no change.

Took them back and had them balanced for a 3rd time.

Same problem.. no change.

Rotated the rear wheel to the front of the car.

Same problem.. no change.

So, I think this rules out the "get your wheels balanced" argument.


Therefore, while I had my car in the air, I grabbed the tires 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock and there was no play in the bearing. I grabbed them at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock and no play. I think that may have ruled out wheel bearings and tie rod joints.

My theory is that one of the axles is shot... either a bad joint or the axle is out of round. The axles haven't been changed in 3 years and they have MANY hard miles on them including 6 track days. Do axles just go bad and cause steering vibrations?

I searched and read EVERY thread I could find on "steering wheel vibrations" and didn't find any definitive answers...

My next course of action will be to put the car in the air, take the wheels off, and run the car while in gear (with someone holding the wheel straight) and check to see if the axles are out of round.

And an all help is well appreciated to help me solve this problem... I don't have the time to go putting my car in the air day after day and throw parts at it... I need to "measure twice and cut once" if you know what I'm sayin'.

 

I relate to this and would like to know more, bump.

 

Do you still have the vibration when you let off the throttle? If it stops, I would look at replacing axles.

 

sounds like an axle problem.

or worn rack , have you adjusted/checked the preload in the rack ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bunger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you still have the vibration when you let off the throttle? If it stops, I would look at replacing axles.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Coasting, accelerating, decelerating. It's the exact symptoms of out-of-balance wheels but the wheels aren't the issue... that's why I'm perplexed.

I had to replace the outer bushing on the rack many months ago but this problem just barely showed up after I got new tires and had the wheels aligned back to zero toe.

I will be replacing the rack shortly and yes, I had adjusted the preload (the big bolt that adjusts tensions where the steering column meets the rack).

I am going to (probably on thursday) get the car in the air, load the suspension and run the engine with the tranny in gear and see if the either axle is out-of-round.

 

when was the last time you had your front rotors turned? they're probably warped and will cause steering vibration that worsens when you brake...just a cheaper thing to look at before axles.

 

read through this thread.........https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1117870..........it may help in diagnosing your troubles

 

You didn't state what kind of wheels you have but are they hubcentric? if not try set of hubcentric rings. If the vibration is constant no matter what your are doing then this might be it.

 

yeah, the rims might be bent, the tires could all have excessive runout, they might not be up right (hubcentric), also, just feeling if you have play doesn't usually show the small balljoint problems.

 

Tires are brand new and the steering rack is rebuilt and tightened.
The rotors are in great condition, no warpage and the vibration doesn't change under braking (actually it lessens because as the speed drops below 60mph the vibration ceases.).
I have already replaced the out tie rods when I rebuilt the rack and wheels all balance out fine on the 2 machines at Discount tires.
I have hubcentric rings and these wheels didn't "wobble" with my other tires on their.

Here's my Bench-Racing deduction.

Since the rack is rebuilt, there is no rack freeplay, no wheel bearing freeplay, the rims didn't used to wiggle and I haven't hit anything big, the alignment used to be toed out and now it's square, and new tires/wheels have been balanced 3 times in a week and the rear were also switched to front....I'm assuming that it's not the wheels and that I don't have 4 bad brand new tires.

I talked with a service guy at Honda today for about 10 minutes and we talked about what "could" be wrong but he was just as stumped as I am!

If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on my passenger side axle. For some non-explainable reason that sounds good.

 

I lifted the car in the air and brought it up to speed (safely) and notice the passenger side axle was way out of round. I replaced it (the old one was clunking anyway) but IT DIDN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM!

I think I might have a bad wheel bearing but if I replace one, then I'll end up replacing both sides.

 

Ok. I HAVE to bump this again!

I replaced all 4 wheel bearings (at 190,000 miles it's good to do). I had a "Bullseye" balance for the wheels (4th balancing).

The problem has been lessened but not cured.

I am very ready to sell my car... This is driving me THAT crazy! Tomorrow I'm going to put on my neighbor's wheels (same size wheel and same tires) and see if that cures it. If it does then I will send tires back to discount and have them replaced.

While I was replacing my bearing I found that ALL the ball joints are in damn good shape. There isn't anything wrong with any ball joints. But, from what I understand, bad ball joints don't cause steering wheel vibration. They will make noise when you're turning or going over bumps but none of that is going on.

I have also replaced the pass. side axle.

I'm just SO utterly pissed off at my car right now. It's to the point where I hate looking at it and I hate driving it even more.

 

All the vibrations I ever had like your were bent wheels. Hope your is too, but damn................

 

I have vibration arounf 60mph +++ and when I brake hard..... My tires dont show any wear, i had my breaks done early summer, axles replace in may as part of my swap.

 

it sounds like you have the same problem i have right now. and i have exhaustively gone through the brake system. i have replaced rotors and pads and tie rod ends and calipers even and havent solved the problem yet either. a friend of mine was suggesting that i might have a bent front knuckle, so i have a set of those that might go in.. my camber is like -1.4 on the right front, and the left is good. another suggestion ive had was upper ball joints, but, ive got shaking under heavy braking and a little steering wheel back and forth movement at most speeds.
i am rather perplexed as well. i know one of my engine mounts is kinda messed up.. but that is about the only other thing i can think of. i know my rear control arm bushings are pretty bad too.. but i just dont have money to throw at the problem right now either.

 

Well, I've had my wheels balanced 4 times and also tried the backs on the front as well as trying my roommates wheels... Same thing. This pretty much rules out wheels and tires.

Here's another thought. When I had the falken azenis on these rims there wasn't any vibration but then again I was running a bunch of toe-out for over 10k miles. I got the new tires and an alignment at the same time then poof... steering vibration.

Now that I have ruled out wheels, wheel bearings, and tie rods I wonder what my other options are. I replaced the pass. axle but I'm wondering if running toe out for so long with grippy tires may have damaged the or caused the driv. side axle to be bad or out-of-round.

I get a small vibration during hard accel between 30 and 50 and then once I get passed 65mph the vibration really takes hold. All my motor mounts are good.

My wallet is getting tired of me throwing money at this.

 

Well to me there are alot of simple questions I would start with on to solving your problems.

1. Are you running on a stock engine ?

2. Are you running on stock Axles ?

3. Are your axles able to with-stand the Horse-Power your car is producing to catch gripp from your wheels ?

4. Stock Engines mounts ? Polyuthrane ?

. . . . . . . . . . . . i rather not keep asking anymore questions as you wouldnt wanna answer them for your-self but there are endless possibilities when it comes to a problem.

I know what you mean here because I do need a alignment on my car

 

b16
90-93 teg int. shaft
90-93 teg axles
removed the dust shield (like you're suppose to)
Hasport mounts (billet)

I have had this setup for 3 years and 50k miles and no problem.

The last 10k miles were with toe out which rapidly wore down my azenis.
So, I replaced the tires and got an alignment at the same time and poof.. this.

 

I'm dealing with the same thing on my Hatch right now. Don't feel like your alone in this...

I have some play in my steering rack though, but I'm not really sure if thats causing it.

 

Replaced the driv. side axle today.

So now I have new tires, 2 new axles, 4 new wheel bearings, new steering rack, new tie rods, and the problem has not changed.

WTF!

What causes vibration during acceleration OTHER than axles... since I now have 2 new axles.????

 

interesting. i would have totally bet it would be any one of your axles, but i guess its not.

did you ever replace your hubs? thats the only thing left i can think off. perhaps the hub is out of center.

does the vibration ever go away after it begins at 65mph?

and btw, the loose steering rack bushing would manifest itself in making excessivle vibration during braking and going over bumps. not cruising.

 

Tyson, you're awesome but I've replaced the rack bushing long ago and it wasn't a concern.

I replaced the bearings.. but NOT the hubs... although I am second guessing myself for not doing so.

Can I replace the front hub without buying new bearings?

No, the vibration WORSENS the faster I go. I won't drive any faster than 65mph and that's REALLY starting to **** me off!

 

Hubcentric rings?

 

no, i was thinking you might have replaced the hub with an aftermarket one when you replaced the bearings. if the hub has been the same, then it shouldnt be a problem.

but, why didnt you change the hubs anyway when you changed the bearings? i did that once, and the next two consecutive weekends at the track, i broke each of my hubs. old hubs shouldnt be tracked.


anyway, this is going to be a long shot. do you still have the sunroof on your car?
i took my sunroof off one time, and didnt have time to reinstall it. and the oddest thing was when i went over 40mph, my whole car would shake. i could NOT figure it out. i even called marty at raxles to see whats up. then one time im driving and i stick my hand out the sunroof, and it just went away. one finger in fact was enough to spoil the air to prevent the airflow over the open roof to resonate and beat like a drum. totally weird.

youre saying that the vibration only increases with speed. well, thats odd because a rotational vibration will eventually go away. its harmonic and speed(frequency) dependent. id start looking into things NOT rotational mass related. loose bolts, cracks in the subframe. whatever.

 

Same hubs as before. I do have hubcentric rings.

What's the coorelation? That's the big question I'm tackling.

Why is that this occured immediately AFTER I got the new tires and got the car aligned?

Did driving around with a lot of positive toe damage anything? This didn't exist when I had azenis and positive toe.

What I'm REALLY pissed off about is that I replaced the driv. side axle with a reman'd unit from NAPA and now I get a bad vibration during acceleration!!! Damn you NAPA!

Do intermediate shafts go bad?


Last but not least, tomorrow, after working, I'm going to put the car in the air with the rotors fastened to the hub and the suspension raised (loaded) and run the car upto 60-70mph and check with a piece of chalk if either hub or axles are out of round. If NOTHING shows any signs of being out-of-round then I will have to assume it's something else and then I'll just get pissed and sell the car.