Alright, I've been around H-T long enough to know that the people in the All Motor forum know their stuff, but I haven't bothered reading long enough to know it all myself. So here's a quick rundown...any help is greatly appreciated.

My friend hydrolocked his B18C1, and the insurance company has totalled his car. It's a really nice Integra and it'll retain a clean title, so he'll be buying it back. We'll be putting in (most likely) a new B18C1 longblock in order to save as much time and money as possible.

He'll have $1,000 left over. Obviously, he wants to make better power out of the motor, and my suggestion was cams, springs, retainers, etc. etc. Problem is, I had NO idea there are so many damn cams on the market. Even just looking at BC and Skunk2, there are so many, and all the descriptions basically say "good power across the powerband."

So what I need to know is this- for a daily driver Integra, how would the experts here spend $1,000 in the motor? Please keep reliability in mind...and there's no need for bolt-ons as he has those already.

Thanks in advance, we're in a tough spot, here

 

skunk stage 1 or civic type r would be nice for a bolt on gsr motor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vinasity &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">skunk stage 1 or civic type r would be nice for a bolt on gsr motor. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is right around where I get lost

I can't see how the cams compare to one another. For example, why not Skunk2 Stage 2s, then? If we're going with springs, retainers, and gears, we can run a moderately aggressive cam, right?

 

the stage 1's will suite the GSR(assuming a stock longblock with stock compression) better then the the stages 2's because the stage 2's will require more compression and higher reving to optimize its full potential.

thats why, both stage 1's and CTR's are good candidates for your setup(ie. bolt ons).

 

Also, a setup there is some buzz about is keeping the gsr exhaust cam and just going with a ctr intake cam. There is a pretty decent-sized thread about this setup in particular, you should check it out. It would also be cheaper than buying a set of other cams.

 

what kind of header and exhaust is on the motor already? Stock ecu?

It helps to look at the whole picture before undergoing a modification like cams.

Maybe a CTR intake cam, with a nice valve job and RM gen 2 valvetrain, and a chipped p28 with crome and tuning would be beneficial.

I dont know how much that would cost, but surely less than or around $1000.

cam - $250ish
valvetrain -$220 or so
valvejob -$150- 450
chipped p28 - free - $150
tuning - $100 - 300

 

bc3+ cams, omnipower springs and retainers, vafc, and go get it tuned. Nice reliable daily driver with great midrange power.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 743power &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what kind of header and exhaust is on the motor already? Stock ecu?

It helps to look at the whole picture before undergoing a modification like cams.

Maybe a CTR intake cam, with a nice valve job and RM gen 2 valvetrain, and a chipped p28 with crome and tuning would be beneficial.

I dont know how much that would cost, but surely less than or around $1000.

cam - $250ish
valvetrain -$220 or so
valvejob -$150- 450
chipped p28 - free - $150
tuning - $100 - 300</TD></TR></TABLE>

He's got a stock ECU, it's a 95 GS-R. The header is a Greddy 4-2-1, and AEM CAI, and an Apex'i WS catback.

Do you think he needs the valvetrain if he's only getting a CTR intake cam? This sounds like the way to go though since S2S2s and valvetrain will run him over $1000, not to mention tuning.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Regal &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

He's got a stock ECU, it's a 95 GS-R. The header is a Greddy 4-2-1, and AEM CAI, and an Apex'i WS catback.

Do you think he needs the valvetrain if he's only getting a CTR intake cam? This sounds like the way to go though since S2S2s and valvetrain will run him over $1000, not to mention tuning.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know for sure, but I doubt the stock gsr springs will be able to control the intake valves at high rpms like honda intended. Maybe a type-r/portfow combo would be good. Since his car is obd1, he can chip his p72 ecu and still have control of the secondary intake runners.

The header/catback aren't the best to support internal mods, but they will get him by.

 

Yeah, he's just looking for some decent gains...the reason why I wonder about the valvetrain is because the B16B, where the cams come from, redlines within 100rpm of the B18C1.

But what sucks is I'm totally lost when it comes to chipping an ECU.

Edit- I'm reading that the B16B redlines at 9k? So, presumably, the cams would make power all the way up? And so the valvetrain would definitely be a good idea.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Regal &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, he's just looking for some decent gains...the reason why I wonder about the valvetrain is because the B16B, where the cams come from, redlines within 100rpm of the B18C1.

But what sucks is I'm totally lost when it comes to chipping an ECU.

Edit- I'm reading that the B16B redlines at 9k? So, presumably, the cams would make power all the way up? And so the valvetrain would definitely be a good idea.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the b16b cams have more lift and duration than the gsr, and a different ramp angle, so they will have different valvetrain requirements

 

GSR valvetrain is fine with CTR cams, i ran CTR cams in my GSR head for over 6 months with no probs. 8200rpm rev limiter.

 

I think we're gonna go with the CTR cam[s], so thanks for the suggestion! What I'm wondering now are 3 things:

1- Is there a benefit to buying only the intake cam aside from saving money? In the thread dedicated to it, people seemed to be surprised at the ammount of tq was being made with only the intake cam. So can I assume that leaving the GS-R exhaust cam helps to make tq and would be better for a daily driver, whereas both CTR cams would probably make better peak HP numbers?

2- I'm lost on the ECU. I have <u>no</u> knowledge in that area, so if anyone could gimme a quick rundown or a link, I'd really appreciate it. A chipped ECU, I'm guessing, is just going to move the crossover and rev limiter? And something like Hondata is needed for full tuning? Which brings me to...

3- With the stock ECU or a chipped ECU, how useful will dyno tuning be?

Everything here has been really helpful, by the way. I think the motor will be a B18C1 with CTR intake cam, 3" ITR AEM CAI, AEBS or Skunk2 intake manifold, and possibly valvetrain/ECU/tuning. We're gonna have to start ordering stuff soon, so any last minute help is appreciated!

 

if the head is gonna be off, it might not hurt to mill it a lil bit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Regal &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
2- I'm lost on the ECU. I have <u>no</u> knowledge in that area, so if anyone could gimme a quick rundown or a link, I'd really appreciate it. A chipped ECU, I'm guessing, is just going to move the crossover and rev limiter? And something like Hondata is needed for full tuning? Which brings me to...

3- With the stock ECU or a chipped ECU, how useful will dyno tuning be?

Everything here has been really helpful, but the way. I think the motor will be a B18C1 with CTR intake cam, 3" ITR AEM CAI, AEBS or Skunk2 intake manifold, and possibly valvetrain/ECU/tuning. We're gonna have to start ordering stuff soon, so any last minute help is appreciated! </TD></TR></TABLE>

chipping the ecu and adding an external eprom will allow you to change the program the ecu uses to control the engine. You can use different software to accomplish this, for free you can use uberdata or crome, or you can pay for crome pro or hondata (which will require extra $$$). You will be able to modify the fuel and timing maps, rev limits and other settings. Something important is to find out what tuners are in your area and what programs they are familiar with.

Neptune is another good management option, but it is not end-user programable, which probably won't be a problem in your case.

With the ecu chipped, you will be able to tune your motor to a good state for the mods that you plan on using.

With the stock ecu, you won't be able to tune it at all, unless you have some sort of mechanical means of adjustment for fuel pressure, like an adjustable pressure regulator, or cam timing, i.e. adjustable cam gears. You can use a vafc to "tune" the stock ecu, but I would rather suggest using the chipped ecu.

Since the car has an obd1 p72 and he is planning on using a single runner IM, he should be able to sell that ecu for $150-200 and buy a chipped p28 ecu to use.

Since he is going with the single runner IM and the ctr cam, I would highly suggest that he definitely gets a chipped ecu, so he is able to take full advantage of that setup.

 

When you say you can use Uberdata for free, is that just assuming any place with a dyno has that? Obviously they must have some means to tune, but the 2 places in my city with dynos seem geared more toward domestics, unfortunately. I'm sure they'll be knowledgable enough to do a decent job, but should I call and ask what software they have?

And then all we need is the chipped p28 and we're ready to go?

By the way, this is an active load bearing dyno that runs PowerDyn, that's all I know. I've only been there one time to get a baseline on my friend's Evo, so no tuning was involved.