Obviously, I'm new to this forum, but gotta say, I cant count the number of hours I've stayed awake collecting data found on this site. I think its wonderful that everyone is so willing to lend a helping hand...er...keystroke to a fellow tuner. Ok, on with my dillema. I currently own a 94 del sol SOHC. The engine is going, and its time for an upgrade. I am weighing the pros and cons of swapping in a GSR vs. an ITR. The car will be an everyday driver, so reliability is key; at the same time, I'll be making frequent visits to the track and road course (once its finally completed at Englishtown!). I have plans to boost the new power plant (supercharge or turbo....what do you think?) and possibly a wet nitrous system thereafter. I've searched the archives for this particular topic but failed to find anything concrete. Thanks in advance for any replies, and I look forward to becomming a regular at this forum!

 

if you plan to go FI then i suggest the gsr plus its cheaper out of the box too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jameskersten1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you plan to go FI then i suggest the gsr plus its cheaper out of the box too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

all you need to know right there...

 

That is what I was leaning towards. Is that because of the higher CR of the ITR motor? Theoretically, when i blow the motor..... .......i could fit the block with lower CR pistons. Still the GSR though?

 

for the money i would buy a gsr motor do the internals and then boost it later on. that way u dont have to worry about blowing the motor. and yes the reason the gsr is better is cause the lower compression. plus if yuou are swapping out the internals you should go with the gsr anyway. The type r head is better but the bottom ends wont matter after both built

 

go with the itr.....you gotta love when that thing when it pops v-tec wowowow.....although more expensive i think if built correct and properlly cared for you will be hapyp that you did...

 

If youre planning boost, yes I agree go with the gsr, make sure you get the lsd tranny too!

 

Boost + GSR + ITR Tranny =

 

Hmmm...

Do you want to pay $3,500.00 for 150whp/125ft-lbs. of torque

or

$4,500.00 for 175whp/125-130ft-lbs. of torque.

I can offer a unique perspective on this since I sold my old GS-R swap in favor of an ITR swap. the difference was 25whp and a massive .8 in the 1/4 mile. On paper it doesn't look like much, but in car lengths it's crazy.

Also you'd be getting an LSd tranny, better gearing, etc. with the Type R swap.

You said you wanted reliability, right? someone name me one boosted B series Honda that didn't need any work at all after 3 years of hard driving.

:crickets chirping:

...that's what I thought.

 

Sounds good guys, looks like the consensus is to go with the GSR. You mentioned the ITR tranny...whats the difference in performance? Closer gear ratio?

 

gsr

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueIntegraBoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Boost + GSR + ITR Tranny = </TD></TR></TABLE>

heh, thats true. I dont mind the up keep at all, but im not looking to blow a 4500 motor if it can be avoided.

 

I thought GSR and LS/Vtec produced similar numbers when boosted even though LS/Vtec was cheaper....

 

Read my post above.



How many of you giving the advise have owned both engines in the same chassis?



Oh and the only reason to go GS-R would be if you're certain you're boosting, but again there goes your reliability. Then again "reliability" is subjective. What I may say is "reliable" may not be what the next guy thinks it should be.

IMO "reliable" is what i've gotten from my B18C5 swap - ripping the **** out of it for 4 years solid without one ounce of engine trouble at all - ever. No turbo'd B series will touch that, and a stockish GS-R will do the same, but it'll make 25whp less in the process and it'll spin the inside wheel in corners.

I'll argue all day against anyone who thinks he can duplicate an ITR swap by starting with the cheaper B18C1/GS-R swap and builds it - it's not even close!!!

 

ive gotta go w/ the gsr too, either one will feel fast to u, especially if ur used to driving that single cam... plus u can use that extra G to buy ur turbo or pistons and rods for when ur really ready to play

 

ps... but it would be really nice to have that tranny!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Read my post above.



How many of you giving the advise have owned both engines in the same chassis?



Oh and the only reason to go GS-R would be if you're certain you're boosting, but again there goes your reliability. Then again "reliability" is subjective. What I may say is "reliable" may not be what the next guy thinks it should be.

IMO "reliable" is what i've gotten from my B18C5 swap - ripping the **** out of it for 4 years solid without one ounce of engine trouble at all - ever. No turbo'd B series will touch that, and a stockish GS-R will do the same, but it'll make 25whp less in the process and it'll spin the inside wheel in corners.

I'll argue all day against anyone who thinks he can duplicate an ITR swap by starting with the cheaper B18C1/GS-R swap and builds it - it's not even close!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I gotta say, you have the experience with both. Question: Is your C5 built or boosted?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kizmasterflex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I gotta say, you have the experience with both. Question: Is your C5 built or boosted?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If he's razzing on boosted B-series on being reliable, then his C5 isn't boosted.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kizmasterflex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I gotta say, you have the experience with both. Question: Is your C5 built or boosted?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's 100% bone stock internally. Basic bolt-ons and Uberdata tuned (like free hondata) and it dynos 176whp/130 ft-lbs. of torque to the wheels.

 

yeah c5's arent really boost friendly unless it is modified and very very well tuned! but i would have to say the gsr would be better because it cost less and with the money you saved on the motor you and put it towards mods! good luck!

 

i say...it depends how deep your pockets are. personally, i like all-motor....therefore if i had the money i would go with the itr. but what can i say...i have a gsr in my eg and i love it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMSiGuy17 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah c5's arent really boost friendly unless it is modified and very very well tuned! but i would have to say the gsr would be better because it cost less and with the money you saved on the motor you and put it towards mods! good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>

What would I have to do to make it boost worthy? heh, my pockes arent that deep, deep enough to drown, but there definitely is a "no diving" sign posted. Though, i suppose you could drown in a puddle of water.......anyway, financially, and result-oriented, would it be better to build and tune the ITR and then boost it, or do the same to the GSR? By the way, thank you all for helping me out on this one. I like to make sure im doing it right when im signing a check for almost 5 grand

 

heres the break down IMO.

ITR (B18C5):
personally my dream motor. amazing numbers at the wheels, verry low maintenance. tank-like head and red valve cover.
but the only problem is: the price. 4500$ U.S. (im in canada) is alot to fork over at one shot.

GS-R (B18C1)
my choice for my 92 VX right now. good price (3000$ canadian complete swap) and this is what im going to drive for a while (enjoying the DEFINATE upgrade from the little D15) while the money i saved will go into a junkyard turbo and goodies to keep it alive. GS-R starts base with nice numbers, and boost just sends it off the charts. as for reliability, any boosted motor, even if properly tuned will call it quits. its a fact. but the point is that a little money every 2 years and regular maintenance is an acceptable price to pay to be able to daily-drive a trackable car.

 

If u have it like that, do the itr, you will have more fun w/ it n/a and will probably quench ur power thirst for a while... in the meantime u can get yourself situated for fi... u kno buy a good set of pistons rods and look into sleeving that thing.. that head and that trans will be pretty nice w/ a nicely built compression "forgiving" bottom end.. w/ the normal compression there's a fine line between boost and boom, which depending on the extent can cost u that whole bottom end and you'll be be left w/ a nice trans and head

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh and the only reason to go GS-R would be if you're certain you're boosting, but again there goes your reliability. Then again "reliability" is subjective. What I may say is "reliable" may not be what the next guy thinks it should be.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree here. GSR is the only the better platform if you are going FI, but then you have to be careful to maintain that relaibility you're looking for. A C5 is probably the most reliable dohc honda makes when its NA (its built to be beat on), but its a mistake if you want FI. If you were going to take a C5 and mod the internals to be boost-friendly, you would be negating the entire reason to get a C5 in the first place, the same end results can be had cheaper with a C1.