Hey guys, I was thinking of swapping to a type R tranny in my LS teg. And I was calling around for some prices. I noticed that there is some w/mugen LSD. Now, I understand what the OEM LSD (hellical) is, but what is the difference between the OEM hellical LSD in the TYPE R, as opposed to the Mugen LSD. Is it made the same way (hellical/clutch type). Whats the positives and negatives. Because obviously it is more expensive. How does it differ from the Quaife or Kaaz. Thanks

 

As I recall, the Mugen diffs are of the clutch pack type, whereas the OEM and sort of Torsen are of the helical type.
Do some more research on the matter!
Oh? your a juicy JDM, i.e., oriental mistress? LOL!


Modified by zygspeed at 3:14 AM 7/20/2005

 

ed wants to play

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sackdz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ed wants to play</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yikes lock the thread!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sackdz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ed wants to play</TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha ... look who's talking!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JuicyJDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now, I understand what the OEM LSD (hellical) is, but what is the difference between the OEM hellical LSD in the TYPE R, as opposed to the Mugen LSD. Is it made the same way (hellical/clutch type). Whats the positives and negatives. Because obviously it is more expensive. How does it differ from the Quaife or Kaaz. Thanks
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The Mugen differential is a friction, clutch type, 2-way differential that works when you are accelerating <u>and</u> decelerating. It would require other than OEM Honda transmission fluid in order to keep the friction plates working correctly. Honestly, the Mugen LSD is not what most of us would want or need.

The Honda-Acura OEM Torsen axle is all that most of us would need. It is all-gear driven and uses regular Honda OEM gearbox fluid, and it is very hard to wear it out. It is also going to be cheaper than the alternatives. The Spoon endurance cars used a slightly modified version of this same LSD.

The Quaife aftermarket units are also Torsen axles, and they also would tend to last a very long time with only normal maintenance.

The Kaaz units are friction disk type that would require special transmission fluid, like the Mugen LSD.

Unless you are already fairly well track trained and/or planning on racing, you will find the OEM Honda/Acura unit to be the most long-lived cost effective solution, IMHO.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Honestly, the Mugen LSD is not what most of us would want or need.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Would you care to elaborate (other than the use of a non-OEM MTF) why this unit is "not what most of us would want or need". Again, price notwithstanding.

I have heard people in the RR forum in the past suggesting that 2-way diffs might be better than the stock ITR units because they "work" more quickly, etc.

 

Ed, they can work a little too quickly, creating decidedly jerky and un-cool [sic] manoeuvres at relatively low speeds.

All most of us want is not to spin an unloaded drive wheel in Rollercoaster or Summit Turn 5.

I did not mean to disparage the Mugen LSD. It's an excellent unit, but beyond the need most of us would have, considering our limited experience.

If you're going into H1 or Grand Am, sure, maybe. But even at that stage, a lot of people get along just fine and win a lot of races with Honda OEM Torsen axles.

Spoon have used both helical gear and friction disk units, depending on the series.

 

I have a clutch type diff and love it!!! I actually lucked out when I bought my JDM ITR engine, it came with this diff and a crazy clutch/flywheel setup. I've been using this diff for about 10 months, the only maintnance I've done is to add a friction modifier when changing the trans fluid.

This diff, along with the low gears are very hard on axles. I've gone through quite a few axles but find that it cant compare with the stock r lsd. I'm sure it will cost a small fortune to maintain when the time comes but I feel it will be well worth it. I also have found out if you plan to drag your car, if you snap an axle on launch your car will pull relatively hard to one side. You will however be able to drive home on one axle. And yes I am talking from experience.

 

George brings up good points. Performing maintenance on a clutch pack LSD would not be any fun. From what I have read, the clutch pack LSD also make noise when turning. There plus is that thay always deliver torque to the wheel with the highest traction regardless of the lower traction wheel.

The helical LSDs are torque biasing units which can multiply the torque delivered to the wheel with the lowest grip by the torque bias ratio and deliver that torque to the wheel with the higher grip. The down side of the helical LSD is that they do not work when one wheel has zero traction.

It's all about what your goals are.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dogginator &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">George brings up good points. Performing maintenance on a clutch pack LSD would not be any fun. From what I have read, the clutch pack LSD also make noise when turning. There plus is that thay always deliver torque to the wheel with the highest traction regardless of the lower traction wheel.

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From using the clutch pack diff for about 9 months and however long the person who owned it in Japan used it, it is holding up really well. It makes no noise on turns, and I have done no maint other than changing the fluid.

 

Clutch type diffs don't require special maintenance on the cars I'm familiar with -- they will wear out well after 100k miles.

Torsen/gear-type units function as an open diff when one wheel has 0 traction.

Most road racers prefer clutch-type diffs due to that fact. Also, some Torsen/gear-type units have a tendency to pull to one side under heavy acceleration.

IMO consider a 1.5-way clutch type LSD from Kaaz if it's available.
-Chris