installed the carbotech panther plus along wid some ATE super blue. pads are focking awsome!!!! can't wait to see how they feel on at VIR next weekend!!! anyone looking for some badazz pads go wid carbotech panther plus.

when taking them for the "brake in run" at first they felt ok, but once they heated up... then i found out how well the stopped.

 

just front, oem in the rear.

 

Just got a question in my mind when I saw the above post.......

When I upgrade my brake pad to perfromance brake pad ( such as R4S, HP+ or Carbotech.....)
Do I really need to use same pad for the front and rear??
A lot ppl say the front brake do most the braking which I agree.....however, if I use a different pad at the rear ( ex. stock pad ).....will I upset the car's balance when it comes to heavy braking???

 

I tried running Panther's in the front and OEM pads in the rear and they felt really good at Sebring. Since then I've gone to P+'s front and back and the car feels better balanced and the back end seems to stay down better when braking hard. Could be entirely in my head but imo, the car really did feel better with P+ front and rear

anyway, long story short... yes, you can run agressive pads up front and OEM in the rear but if you can afford it go ahead and get the better pads all the way around

 

Performance pads in front and OEM in rear is fine. Many people run this way. Once you've driven a bit, you can play with rear pads to alter the front/rear bias, but be careful.

An example:
1982 RX-7 racecar. Soft suspension (it's a spec series, no coilovers allowed). If I use aggressive rear pads, the rear end locks up under heavy braking (115mph-60mph). So, I use either OEM compounds or a high performance street pad for sprint races (40 minutes).

But, in a similar car during a 12 hour enduro, the OEM pads overheat and fall apart. So, an aggressive track compound is used. But, a brake bias valve is installed so the driver can dial back the rear pressure.

On a car with good weight distribution and a stiff suspension, you can usually run pretty aggressive rear pads. Some of the ITR drivers here run Hawk Blues in rear with good success. But, start with the OEM rears, and work up as needed, it's safer and it's cheaper.

 

that's the point i'm at right now.

edit... anyone know if the dust off the panther + is corrosive???


[Modified by ITR764, 11:07 AM 2/17/2002]

 

I'll be running Panther + in front and AEM/Nissin in rear, we'll see how that works...and you're right about the P+, i couldn't believe it when they heated up...and i'm sure that confidence will remain even towards the end of a session.

 

Ill start with the dust. NO its not corrosive. Ive left the dust on for a week after a track event at Sebring and came off fine. I didnt even have to scrub,, just like OEM dust....lots of it.

I ran the P+ with OEM rears and it felt prety good. A tad squirmy in the ***-end under very hard braking. I did a slight upgrade to an R4S rear pad and it feels sweet! Not a super agressive pad, but bites more than stock.

Edit: These things do awesome with heat too. I did some 30-45 min sessions at Sebring full course and the last stop felt just as good as the 1st "at speed" stop.


[Modified by siisgood00, 4:01 PM 2/17/2002]

 

Hmmm, I just got done rotating tires and noticed the Panther + pads may need a replacement set before next Friday.

Andie, I think I'll be calling in the morning.

 

Good Morning, Guys...

Well, Michael (Poole), I have several sets of the front Civic Si pads in P+ in stock...but I have one set of Panther XP's in stock...requires more heat, but stops much better than P+ for track use with R-compound tires. I know Corey tried a set last season. If you are running street tires (even max performane street tires), stick with P+...if you run R-compound, you can try the XP.

-Andie

 

So the XP came in...? We going with that for my setup or P+ F/R...?

 

It is not 100% necessary to change the rear pads from OEM when changing the fronts to a very aggressive compound such as the Carbotech Panther Plus. However, using this setup on any car will change your braking bias, and the rear end of the car will tend to become unsettled under very hard braking, especially if you are entering a trailbraking situation. This type of setup will work well for street and auto-x.

It is optimal to change the fronts are the rears for track use. It is not necessary ot use the same compound in the front as in the rear - this all depends on the car and how you want it to handle under braking; this becomes a suspension issue as well. However, when there is a large discrepancy between Cf's front-to-rear, then some discernable imbalance in braking will occur.

Andie

 

The XP is still a week or so out for production.

I just happened to find a set sitting on the shelf for the Civic Si. Or depending on who you are. ;-)

-Andie

 

XP+? Didn't even know about them. I recently bought a set, front and rear, of Pather Plus for the track with track tires (Ecsta V700s). Maybe I should have gotten the XP+?

 

I prefer to have people try the P+ first, before going to a full-race pad like the XP...do you can decide if you prefer more modulation or initial bite...

-Andie

 

Try the P+ first, if it doesn't cut it, ie; brake fade and frying pads, try the XP.... I would not recomend the XP for street tires, only race tires and nutty *** drivers, if your at least an advanced student or racer...

 

since picking up couple sets of p+ from Larry and tried them on the delsol, I'm very impressed. they've done everything Larry promised they would do, but since I've never driven Porterfield R4 and Hawk Blue's, I still wonder about them.

Over the weekend I drove a friend's car with R4's around town, it has better cold bite. they felt pretty good. however they are hard on the rotors compare to p+. he has some cryo'ed porterfield rotors and even after just 1 day @ track (meaning no street driving) there's a noticable groove already. I'll probably get some laps in the R4's on the track on friday.

How hard will the XP be on the rotor vs. P+? In track use, and cold use. Will it last longer than P+ on the track? Spec wise, it seems just to be a little higher than P+ in heat range and a bit higher in friction too. With conditions being equal, will it last longer, or shorter than p+?

afterthought... hmm actually the better cold bite could be from his car setup... it has ITR brakes (11" vs. my 10.3") as well as bigger booster and MC. I'm changing my dinky 260 mm booster and 15/16" to 290 mm booster and 1" MC soon. maybe that will help a bit.





[Modified by frank@b16a.com, 8:59 AM 2/18/2002]

 

Im a rIcer, does that count?

I started with the P+, its a GREAT pad. Im now using the XP's and OEM's inthe rear. Call me crazy

Bryan

 

I ran ATE Gold with P+ F/R. This time I was harder on the brakes and it felt solid. The back end was fine too. I also run the StopTech 2PC rotors in front which are doing quite well. I did notice that my passenger side rear caliper is starting to give up (too much heat), but it lasted the weekend!!

Thanks,
Victor Perri II

 

Carbotech absolutely rocks!
I have run 7 track days of braking my 3200 +/- lbs Accord with dinky brakes around several different tracks and still have pad left
I have not once had a fade problem or needed to adjust my braking zones becuase of the pads and I am not exactly easy on brakes
I will be running R compounds this weekend hopefully and can't wait to see how they work out

Morgan- who thanks his great brakes for keeping him out of the Armco in his spin to the inside of hogpen at VIR

 

This weekend at VIR I fried a set of P+ (got them so hot the piston cut right through the backing plate and welded the remaining pad to it, final analisis for people who saw this) a set of P+ as I've done before but I still swear by them I have decided the truck will only run minamal track time until I can get some dual piston calipers for it. It just weighs to much. Maybe Andy can help me get new pads once I get new calipers

 

Good Show! Yet another object to put over your mantle

Thanks,
Victor Perri II

 

Hehe...before I start into this one, let me say that I wish I was there to take pictures of that.

Now, on the serious side...

In the cases where I have seen this happen (i.e. bending or breaking backing plates), it is on a vehicle which has a caliper/brake system that is insufficient for the vehicle, whether based on weight or potential speed, or both. It typically occurs on systems which only have one piston on each side of the pad, or just one piston on one side with a slider mechanism for the other pad. This simply puts too much pressure on one area of the backing plate, and as the pads fade, you will press down further on the brake pedal to try to get the vehicle to slow down...and this excessive force will result in a bent backing plate.

Andie

 

Here are links to pics of Carbotech pads which have either been improperly installed and/or put through excessive "abuse" in enduro events. You will see that the pads have been worn very thin, the backing plates are severely bent, BUT the pad material has not delaminated from the backing plate.
http://www.carbotecheng.com/badpadpic/badpad1.jpg http://www.carbotecheng.com/badpadpic/badpad2.jpg http://www.carbotecheng.com/badpadpic/badpad3.jpg http://www.carbotecheng.com/badpadpic/badpad4.jpg http://www.carbotecheng.com/badpadpic/badpad5.jpg http://www.carbotecheng.com/badpadpic/badpad6.jpg

With Best Regards,

Andie Lin

 

Come on Andie, are you actually saying we cant stop with your backing plates alone? Weird...