supercharger/turbo question...
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From: so cal, USA
Re: supercharger/turbo question... (s2krider21)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s2krider21 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well my cousin is decided to sell his Audi A4 and wants to buy himself a S2000. He wants to either supercharge it or turbocharge it. I want to know which one is better as far as power and long term effect on the motor, as far as wear and tear. Of course i have a s2000 myself, but i really dont know jack **** about forced induction. 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
high compression + turbo isnt ur friend.
he can possibly run low amounts of boost with a good tuner retarding his timings. if he has money, he can spend money on lowering compression and he can jump up the timings. he can skip this route and go with a SC. comptech one seems very reliable if he keeps it at the stock boost and it will gives a good amount of hp/torque.
</TD></TR></TABLE>high compression + turbo isnt ur friend.
he can possibly run low amounts of boost with a good tuner retarding his timings. if he has money, he can spend money on lowering compression and he can jump up the timings. he can skip this route and go with a SC. comptech one seems very reliable if he keeps it at the stock boost and it will gives a good amount of hp/torque.
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: newport beach, ca, 92660
Re: supercharger/turbo question... (eMpAtHy)
people seem to be haveing better luck with the bolt on superchargers from vortech and comptech. some dealers will warranty the comptech sc/d cars. From the turbo's that we have worked on, they have a harder time tuning and seem to have more issues constantly, out of about 10 cars I have not had one come in tuned even close to the power the S/c'd cars like Sideways (400+whp) vortech and run as smooth.
SC gets my vote if you want a good bump in power without alot of headaches, Torbo if you want to tweek and mess with it alot. The car seems to take the SC's better IMO. (both would run better with lower compression, but not everyone has the $$)
MAtt
SC gets my vote if you want a good bump in power without alot of headaches, Torbo if you want to tweek and mess with it alot. The car seems to take the SC's better IMO. (both would run better with lower compression, but not everyone has the $$)
MAtt
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From: London, UK
Re: supercharger/turbo question... (cambopheonix56)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cambopheonix56 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Turbo = mid-high power
SC = low/instant power</TD></TR></TABLE>
wrong....
the superchargers for the s2k are centrifugal superchargers... they build boost thoughout the powerband and will not hit peak boost till redline...
SC = low/instant power</TD></TR></TABLE>
wrong....
the superchargers for the s2k are centrifugal superchargers... they build boost thoughout the powerband and will not hit peak boost till redline...
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From: Washington, DC, USA
Re: supercharger/turbo question... (03s2kblue)
correct! to be on the safe side and to make it easy id go with the comptech SC. But if u wanna make alot of power/blow motor sooner id go with a Turbo. you can get more boost/psi/compress more air with a turbo therefore, more air+ bigger bang = more hp. Super chargers are limited to a certain amount of boost because it runs of the engine, therefore not much compressed air + not bigger bang = not much hp. Either way adding boost to a NA car needs a lot of work/tuning. Specially on the S2k since it has a high compression motor. You can easily blow up this motor if u dont know what your doin. I would use a super charger and slap on a thicker head gasket if you want the motor to last. If you want more boost (10psi+) i d go with a Turbo and get rid of the stock pistons and replace it with low compression pistions. And ofcourse have the EMS tuned properly. 
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From: Shelton, wa, usa
Re: supercharger/turbo question... (cambopheonix56)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by daS2Kdriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But if u wanna make alot of power/blow motor sooner id go with a Turbo. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I gotta disagree with this. Either motor will blow up just as fast without a good tune and with high boost. As well as both motors would last just as long with a good tune.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pierceman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have not had one come in tuned even close to the power the S/c'd cars like Sideways (400+whp) vortech and run as smooth. MAtt</TD></TR></TABLE>
If the money on your car is spent like sideways I would only expect it to run as smooth. If all works out at Full-Race Someone at Full-Race will be tuning the car with the TURBO set-up and I would assume I could expect nothing but a comfortable ride and an awesome tune. I am also going for 400whp with the car being completed by Full-Race from start to finish.
The bottom line is this and I don't see how anyone can not agree with this.
A supercharger is usually going to make about the same peak power but have less under the overall curve because the boost rises to redline. The supercharger kits are more of a bolt-on and go deal that seems to work fine for most people without even going with an EMS of sort. Expect 280-310 usually whp.
A turbo is going to be more expensive. The basic kits out there do not give a ems map that you can use and the car will need to be tuned. This is the reason why most people will say that the supercharger is more reliable. Because the tune is easier because of the boost starting out small and then rising to redline. Most tuners cannot tune worth a **** on just about any S2000 but a few that I have seen. As far as power delivery you can make more power under the curve if you match the turbo to the car because full boost will be realized at around 3500 or so and the torque curve will be much flatter. Others have shown graphs of superchargers making similar power but you may not even want to go there for the money to do that. I am sure I could go on and on but this is a good start.
Supercharger = Easier install less tuning headache out of the gate with good powergains.
Turbo = More conmplex set-up with the tune being the limiting factor in driveability and reliability. Get the tune down and 350whp is not that hard to get. You can get with a gt35R and an awesome set-up @18psi around 500whp if you so desire.
Good luck
-Chris
Modified by frxtc@9k at 3:38 PM 7/14/2005
I gotta disagree with this. Either motor will blow up just as fast without a good tune and with high boost. As well as both motors would last just as long with a good tune.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pierceman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have not had one come in tuned even close to the power the S/c'd cars like Sideways (400+whp) vortech and run as smooth. MAtt</TD></TR></TABLE>
If the money on your car is spent like sideways I would only expect it to run as smooth. If all works out at Full-Race Someone at Full-Race will be tuning the car with the TURBO set-up and I would assume I could expect nothing but a comfortable ride and an awesome tune. I am also going for 400whp with the car being completed by Full-Race from start to finish.
The bottom line is this and I don't see how anyone can not agree with this.
A supercharger is usually going to make about the same peak power but have less under the overall curve because the boost rises to redline. The supercharger kits are more of a bolt-on and go deal that seems to work fine for most people without even going with an EMS of sort. Expect 280-310 usually whp.
A turbo is going to be more expensive. The basic kits out there do not give a ems map that you can use and the car will need to be tuned. This is the reason why most people will say that the supercharger is more reliable. Because the tune is easier because of the boost starting out small and then rising to redline. Most tuners cannot tune worth a **** on just about any S2000 but a few that I have seen. As far as power delivery you can make more power under the curve if you match the turbo to the car because full boost will be realized at around 3500 or so and the torque curve will be much flatter. Others have shown graphs of superchargers making similar power but you may not even want to go there for the money to do that. I am sure I could go on and on but this is a good start.
Supercharger = Easier install less tuning headache out of the gate with good powergains.
Turbo = More conmplex set-up with the tune being the limiting factor in driveability and reliability. Get the tune down and 350whp is not that hard to get. You can get with a gt35R and an awesome set-up @18psi around 500whp if you so desire.
Good luck
-Chris
Modified by frxtc@9k at 3:38 PM 7/14/2005
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From: Atlanta, GA
Re: supercharger/turbo question... (frxtc@9k)
Man we should have like a requirement for people to post in this forum, that they have to already OWN an S2000 (and that goes for the people their talking about as well)...they should start donating $1 to the website everytime someone asks about the S2000 because either THEY or someone THEY KNOW is "going" to buy an S2000. blarg 
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From: Iowa
Re: supercharger/turbo question... (03s2kblue)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 03s2kblue »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
wrong....
the superchargers for the s2k are centrifugal superchargers... they build boost thoughout the powerband and will not hit peak boost till redline...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I learn something new everyday...
wrong....
the superchargers for the s2k are centrifugal superchargers... they build boost thoughout the powerband and will not hit peak boost till redline...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I learn something new everyday...
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From: London, UK
Re: supercharger/turbo question... (hypnosisracing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hypnosisracing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Man we should have like a requirement for people to post in this forum, that they have to already OWN an S2000 (and that goes for the people their talking about as well)...they should start donating $1 to the website everytime someone asks about the S2000 because either THEY or someone THEY KNOW is "going" to buy an S2000. blarg </TD></TR></TABLE>
well the person that made the main post does own a s2k......
</TD></TR></TABLE>well the person that made the main post does own a s2k......
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From: Ohio, usa
Re: supercharger/turbo question... (03s2kblue)
youll be happy either way aslong as you dont go boost crazy with it.. anything that makes it faster than the stock pig that cant even get out of its own way is good!
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From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
frxtc@9k has got it spot on.
The Comptech & Vortech kits come with a "blockbox" to handle the ECU. This is fine for the purposes of those kits, however upping the boost by changing the pulley you are going to need a lot more (eg bigger injectors, ecu etc).
The main factor to longevity is the design of the kit itself. Cutting corners to save a bit of money usually results in problems down the track.
As somebody once said:
Power/price/reliability - choose two of these.
The Comptech & Vortech kits come with a "blockbox" to handle the ECU. This is fine for the purposes of those kits, however upping the boost by changing the pulley you are going to need a lot more (eg bigger injectors, ecu etc).
The main factor to longevity is the design of the kit itself. Cutting corners to save a bit of money usually results in problems down the track.
As somebody once said:
Power/price/reliability - choose two of these.
EFSS153
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Tornado Alley
Re: (Yobz)
Instead of spending $5k-6k+ on FI, why doesn't someone try an all motor setup?
Seems like not very many people are into NA power with the S2K. I'm not at all against FI, I would just rather put that money into cams, headwork, displacement(maybe a stroker kit), ecu tuning, and compression. I'd be more proud of a 275-300whp built NA motor than a bolt on SC or turbo kit with the same amount of power. I realize that going SC or turbo you have greater potential for big hp numbers, but your reliability and drivability go out the window.
If it were me(remember this is just my opinion) I'd put that money into building a high compression/displacement all motor setup and then concentrate on suspension and weight reduction. Everyone knows the S2K has lots of spare poundage to lose.
If you simply want to be a dyno queen or have internet bragging rights, by all means go for big numbers with FI, but I would have a lot more respect for a sub 2500lb/275+whp light weight/all motor S2000.
Just my $.02
Seems like not very many people are into NA power with the S2K. I'm not at all against FI, I would just rather put that money into cams, headwork, displacement(maybe a stroker kit), ecu tuning, and compression. I'd be more proud of a 275-300whp built NA motor than a bolt on SC or turbo kit with the same amount of power. I realize that going SC or turbo you have greater potential for big hp numbers, but your reliability and drivability go out the window.
If it were me(remember this is just my opinion) I'd put that money into building a high compression/displacement all motor setup and then concentrate on suspension and weight reduction. Everyone knows the S2K has lots of spare poundage to lose.
If you simply want to be a dyno queen or have internet bragging rights, by all means go for big numbers with FI, but I would have a lot more respect for a sub 2500lb/275+whp light weight/all motor S2000.
Just my $.02
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From: Livermore, CA, USA
Re: (NAallTheWAY)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAallTheWAY »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Instead of spending $5k-6k+ on FI, why doesn't someone try an all motor setup?
Seems like not very many people are into NA power with the S2K. I'm not at all against FI, I would just rather put that money into cams, headwork, displacement(maybe a stroker kit), ecu tuning, and compression. I'd be more proud of a 275-300whp built NA motor than a bolt on SC or turbo kit with the same amount of power. I realize that going SC or turbo you have greater potential for big hp numbers, but your reliability and drivability go out the window. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, you can spend the $5k on Mugen IHE and make 10HP or get 10X the power with an SC...
And have you seen anyone selling the stroker kit for less than the Vortech SC(now $3,999) or a turbo?
What kind of gas do you expect to use with higher comp pistons?
Seems like not very many people are into NA power with the S2K. I'm not at all against FI, I would just rather put that money into cams, headwork, displacement(maybe a stroker kit), ecu tuning, and compression. I'd be more proud of a 275-300whp built NA motor than a bolt on SC or turbo kit with the same amount of power. I realize that going SC or turbo you have greater potential for big hp numbers, but your reliability and drivability go out the window. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, you can spend the $5k on Mugen IHE and make 10HP or get 10X the power with an SC...
And have you seen anyone selling the stroker kit for less than the Vortech SC(now $3,999) or a turbo?
What kind of gas do you expect to use with higher comp pistons?
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Shelton, wa, usa
Re: (jasonw)
NA is in no way 5k-6k. The stroker kit for toda is $4300 and that is just the kit. Now add a throttle bodies at about $1500, Head work at $1500, The labor to take it apart and put it back together, $2500, Exhaust $1400, Exhaust Manifold, $1200, Campulleys $720, Camshafts $1100, Intake $350, EMS $1500, Tuning $1500, Misc Parts (battery relocation and otehr little stuff) $550, and what do you get. Well around $18120. Now for 300whp it isn't worth it. Many of us have way less than this and are running well over 350whp on stock block and are still running the stock block.
EFSS153
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Tornado Alley
Re: (jasonw)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jasonw »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, you can spend the $5k on Mugen IHE and make 10HP or get 10X the power with an SC...
And have you seen anyone selling the stroker kit for less than the Vortech SC(now $3,999) or a turbo?
What kind of gas do you expect to use with higher comp pistons?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I never said you had to buy Mugen or the most expensive parts.
Stroking it might be necessary to get over 275whp. I know a local guy with close to 275whp with i/h/e, cams, headwork and tuning. Stock block. He also spent less than $5k and runs on pump gas.
He has a full carbon front end(replaced after minor accident on the hwy), jdm S2k rear end(better gearing he says), and an AP2 tanny in his '02. That car is fast as hell and he hasn't touched the block yet.
He's a pilot in the Navy and has no wife/kids. Needsless to say, he's loaded and a die-hard Honda man. Next to his S in the garage is a brand new F22 ready to be fully built all motor as soon a he gets back from deployment. I can bet that he's not on any of these forums. I'm rambling, but to sum it up, he spent less than $5k and has a really nice all motor setup.
I'm not against FI, I just thought this would spice things up a bit. Personally I like a high revving, high compression, all motor screamer. But, by all means, FI is usually more bang for the buck and just as fun.
Well, you can spend the $5k on Mugen IHE and make 10HP or get 10X the power with an SC...
And have you seen anyone selling the stroker kit for less than the Vortech SC(now $3,999) or a turbo?
What kind of gas do you expect to use with higher comp pistons?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I never said you had to buy Mugen or the most expensive parts.
Stroking it might be necessary to get over 275whp. I know a local guy with close to 275whp with i/h/e, cams, headwork and tuning. Stock block. He also spent less than $5k and runs on pump gas.
He has a full carbon front end(replaced after minor accident on the hwy), jdm S2k rear end(better gearing he says), and an AP2 tanny in his '02. That car is fast as hell and he hasn't touched the block yet.
He's a pilot in the Navy and has no wife/kids. Needsless to say, he's loaded and a die-hard Honda man. Next to his S in the garage is a brand new F22 ready to be fully built all motor as soon a he gets back from deployment. I can bet that he's not on any of these forums. I'm rambling, but to sum it up, he spent less than $5k and has a really nice all motor setup.
I'm not against FI, I just thought this would spice things up a bit. Personally I like a high revving, high compression, all motor screamer. But, by all means, FI is usually more bang for the buck and just as fun.
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From: San Jose, CA, GoodoleUSA
turbo = guaranteed to blow the motor without the proper fuel, air, and compression settings.
s/c = proper tuning, dealership installation, with stock internals, and longer life for the motor.
IMO the Comptech is the best. No oil taps needed unlike the Vortech. I wuold also advise him to get the aftercooler kit for better horsepower.
s/c = proper tuning, dealership installation, with stock internals, and longer life for the motor.
IMO the Comptech is the best. No oil taps needed unlike the Vortech. I wuold also advise him to get the aftercooler kit for better horsepower.
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From: Shelton, wa, usa
Re: (NAallTheWAY)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAallTheWAY »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Stroking it might be necessary to get over 275whp. I know a local guy with close to 275whp with i/h/e, cams, headwork and tuning. Stock block. He also spent less than $5k and runs on pump gas.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would love to see a WHP car that has close to 275 with just what you said. I haven't seen it without a $1500 head job, and the best I/H/E money can buy. Not including a throttle body and a full EMS (not e-manage). We all have seen the dynos for the I/H/E combos and V-AFC and nowhere has anyone seen any real gains. Maybe 10-15hp. Even the Toda cams aren't cheap and has nowhere near any significant gain. SO if you got a parts list and a dyno graph I would love to see it.
-Chris
Stroking it might be necessary to get over 275whp. I know a local guy with close to 275whp with i/h/e, cams, headwork and tuning. Stock block. He also spent less than $5k and runs on pump gas.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would love to see a WHP car that has close to 275 with just what you said. I haven't seen it without a $1500 head job, and the best I/H/E money can buy. Not including a throttle body and a full EMS (not e-manage). We all have seen the dynos for the I/H/E combos and V-AFC and nowhere has anyone seen any real gains. Maybe 10-15hp. Even the Toda cams aren't cheap and has nowhere near any significant gain. SO if you got a parts list and a dyno graph I would love to see it.
-Chris
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From: Livermore, CA, USA
Re: (NAallTheWAY)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAallTheWAY »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stroking it might be necessary to get over 275whp. I know a local guy with close to 275whp with i/h/e, cams, headwork and tuning. Stock block. He also spent less than $5k and runs on pump gas. </TD></TR></TABLE>
What did he tune with?????!!!
Cams $1,300
Header $1,000
Exhaust $1,000+
Intake $ 220-1,200
Headwork $ ???
Tuning Labor $ 150/hr
Something to tune with $250-1,300
Sounds like BS. NOT 275 WHP!
</TD></TR></TABLE>What did he tune with?????!!!
Cams $1,300
Header $1,000
Exhaust $1,000+
Intake $ 220-1,200
Headwork $ ???
Tuning Labor $ 150/hr
Something to tune with $250-1,300
Sounds like BS. NOT 275 WHP!
EFSS153
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Tornado Alley
Re: (jasonw)
The guy is like 35 and he has been building Honda motors before it was even cool to own a Honda. He does all the work himself and he has no reason to lie to me about hp numbers. He's a very humble guy. I saw some ITB's that he custom built himself on his crx in like the early 90's. I will ask him when he gets back from the middle east and see if he has a dyno chart.
I don't know the extent of the headwork, but I'm pretty sure it was something that wasn't cheap. This guy goes all out. Plus he's one of the coolest guys I have ever met.
The HP numbers are just hearsay, but I will vouch for the guy. He knows his stuff.
I don't know the extent of the headwork, but I'm pretty sure it was something that wasn't cheap. This guy goes all out. Plus he's one of the coolest guys I have ever met.
The HP numbers are just hearsay, but I will vouch for the guy. He knows his stuff.