Alright Honda-Tech Brain Surgeons and Rocket Scientists...Here's the problem:

I bought a new book...by STEVE Smith...with a bunch of stuff like what Bob Bolles has been writing in Circle Track and in his book.

The short story is this: while maintaining the basic balance of F/R roll stiffness of your asphalt roundy rounder they say you will go faster by running softer springs and a bigger bar in the front (than the traditional setup having more spring and less bar).

The key phrase that I'd like to use to get us started is this: "An added benefit is that the stiff bar helps hold the left front corner down thru all phases of cornering for more left front tire loading".

How's that sound to you?

Scott, who wants to be a Facili-Tator...kinda like the doods on MXC...COME ON DOWN!

 

Frankly Scott, this is getting a little ridiculous.

And yes, I do say this pretty much tongue-in-cheek, but really ... put your car out on the track and test out some of these theories for yourself. That's the only way you'll know if they work for you!

{deleted ongoing rant about "racing" sooner than later, etc., and keeping my secrets to myself}

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Frankly Scott, this is getting a little ridiculous.

And yes, I do say this pretty much tongue-in-cheek, but really ... put your car out on the track and test out some of these theories for yourself. That's the only way you'll know if they work for you!

{deleted ongoing rant about "racing" sooner than later, etc., and keeping my secrets to myself} </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ed,

Yes, sure, I know it's ridiculous...THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING...

Scott, who notes that technically you've just biffed into the muddy slop...

 

dayum.....someone just needs to slam their little peter in a book and QUIT reading so much.....maybe if you had 1/100000 of track time compared to your reading you might get the car moving someday....

you really think that at the level you are at 2/100ths of a second a lap is gonna make a difference??

really man....just PUT THE BOOKS down and go do some spirited canyon driving!!

seriously scott...please....JUST GO DRIVE YOUR CAR!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scott, who notes that technically you've just biffed into the muddy slop...</TD></TR></TABLE>

And, you have no Idea just how far in I intend to jump, with eyes wide open!

I'm sort of thinking an HU HC turbo car with front interior/nice custom cage.
Just let me see what my sponsor the USPTO has to say in the next month or so.

Moreso, I might be tempted or need to actually drive this to and from the track.
Do you guys think that's doable, or is it just another silly question?
Though in my laziness, I'd probably at least get one of those little trailers for tools and tires.

 

Splish Splash...Joo guys need to be takin' a Baff...

Scott, who Has noted that this game has a very low sucess rate...

 

Zyg, think of it like this: whether or not it's safe getting to and from the track in a caged car (a semi-debatable topic), the risk of damaging your car to the point that it's not driveable is much greater with W2W. Given that, it sure would suck to go off, break some suspension piece, and have to pay for a tow home. Weirdly enough, that monetary and convenience incentive has always been the more convincing of the two reasons for me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scott, who Has noted that [t]his game has a very low sucess rate...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm a "late bloomer", as I underatand the term.
Not only that, I'm just starting to have some fun in life ....

 

I know that Adam, and Its been a major stumbling point (Along with a lack of space to work on the car).

That being said, there are a few race tracks withing a reasonable distance of NE Ohio for AAA to bring me home, and which would not only mitigate the expense of a tow vehicle but also enable me to see the faces of the other competitors as I hook up the little trailer and head on home for the weekend after its over.
Frankly, I think keeping the rear seats in helps keep some more weight over the rear wheels.

 

If you don't mind the risk and the tow-home thing, go for it. You will save a ton of money on the vehicle, both in vehicle cost and insurance. I assume you'd keep the race car still insured for the street then though?

 

I really hate three-posting a thread where I could simply have edited a former post, but I do so herein to bid Scott a good evening and to say that this is merely the internetwedbsuperhighwaythingamabob and that I wish you well in all things that matter.

But, on the track, ...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I assume you'd keep the race car still insured for the street then though?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, of course (Ohio is nice that way).
That, and my 85 CRX Si.

I understand that Piper is in the area (NoVA) and I'll have my old turbo motor looked at by the end of the year or so.

 

To make a fast dirt-track car that will win or at least make Kenny Blankechet's 10 most painful eliminations:

1. Jack up front of car.
2. With front left at full droop, weld 1" OD steel bar from LCA to frame.
3. Smoke everyone since your wheel is held down through all phases of conering.
4. Don't Get Eliminated!


Modified by GSpeedR at 11:27 AM 7/12/2005

 

Scott, maybe this goes against your nature, and perhaps it goes against every fiber of your being, but have ya said, "what the hell, why don't I just try to wing it?"

I have no doubt you're more of a "thinker" than a "feeler" as measured by the Myers Briggs typology. But, just maybe, it would be okay to try going the opposite direction of your inclinations once in a while. You might like the results.

Casey, who never follows his own advise

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scott, maybe this goes against your nature, and perhaps it goes against every fiber of your being, but have ya said, "what the hell, why don't I just try to wing it?"

I have no doubt you're more of a "thinker" than a "feeler" as measured by the Myers Briggs typology. But, just maybe, it would be okay to try going the opposite direction of your inclinations once in a while. You might like the results.

Casey, who never follows his own advise</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uh-oh, I know I've hit rock bottom when somebody like Casey suggests I might benefit from George Costanza's Theory of the Opposite.

Scott, who says despite that Casey is just talking from the mud bog...and I'm wearing a bizarre floral moo-moo and laughing...

 

In response to everyone who chides Scott for "thinking too much", I say: what's the purpose of a message board other than to share thoughts on a subject. Even real-world reports on specific setup changes and their effects need to have some sort of discussion of why it did or didn't work in order to be useful to more than one person.

If everyone spent all their time "just doing it" and never bothered to think about what they were doing, then this forum would degenerate from being a valuable technical resource to nothing more than a bunch of posts of "pictures from last weekend" and debates on religion. Hey, wait a second...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">NE Ohio</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thread hijack, sorry. Zyg you back in NE Ohio? If so you'll have to come get a beer sometime.

- Mark

 

Thank You, Agent Smith, for saying so well what I was about to try to say and likely not do it as succinctly.

For persons like me where "racing" and "cars" are strictly an academic exercise, good discussions on theory are indeed interesting and probably the closest I will get to the real thing. Now combine a good theoretical discussion with empirical results and you have a thread that is :blort: worthy.

 

I like swaybars. If you have a minimum weight and you're well within it, you can get your roll stiffness while concentrating some weight almost always lower and sometimes closer to the CG with a bigger bar and smaller springs (even though the spring weight differences are pretty small between rates), in addition to driving around corners with the inside front holding up the car while the other three dangle in the air.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like swaybars. If you have a minimum weight and you're well within it, you can get your roll stiffness while concentrating some weight almost always lower and sometimes closer to the CG with a bigger bar and smaller springs (even though the spring weight differences are pretty small between rates), in addition to driving around corners with the inside front holding up the car while the other three dangle in the air. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I just recognized a key defect in my association with MXC - what happens when somebody un-impaired or un-incompetent plays the game?

Scott, who says "OK, we'll do it like it's racing...We have our first Champion"...I really liked this part: ...driving around corners with the inside front holding up the car while the other three dangle in the air.

 

*runs face-first into the door that isn't just painted-on paper*

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Uh-oh, I know I've hit rock bottom when somebody like Casey suggests I might benefit from George Costanza's Theory of the Opposite.

Scott, who says despite that Casey is just talking from the mud bog...and I'm wearing a bizarre floral moo-moo and laughing...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is that you're way of saying, "no, I've never tried to wing it"? Didn't think it was too tuff of a question.

Casey, from the mud bog, wondering what Scott looks like in a floral moo-moo, and ready to practice more pocket-book psychology whenever his Oregon-based buddy has the need

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Is that you're way of saying, "no, I've never tried to wing it"? Didn't think it was too tuff of a question.

Casey, from the mud bog, wondering what Scott looks like in a floral moo-moo, and ready to practice more pocket-book psychology whenever his Oregon-based buddy has the need</TD></TR></TABLE>


Casey....OMG!...if you could fully fathom the operation of my "process"...

It's like this: I think about it, I obsess about it, I struggle with it, and then...when it's almost more than I can stand anymore...I do something that might not have been part of the consideration and may even appear to be random.

Scott, who says that's why I rigged this thread so I could just sit in the moo-moo and laugh...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It's like this: I think about it, I obsess about it, I struggle with it, and then...when it's almost more than I can stand anymore...I do something that might not have been part of the consideration and may even appear to be random.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds like a Virgo

Chris - who has a similar process for just about everything considered (for me at least) a 'big' decision, suprisingly have not flowcharted it yet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Markus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thread hijack, sorry. Zyg you back in NE Ohio? If so you'll have to come get a beer sometime. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey Mark, I'm still in Alexandria VA for the most part but have been making monthly trips back to Youngstown to sell of the 87 CRX, 87 Teg parts car and some misc. associated parts and wheels. Thinning the herd.

I'll try and come up for one of the future NASA events near the end of the year. Ed

Scott -- I'm playing with the suspension on the ITR these last few days after hearing some slop in the RR coilover (probably need to tighten up the spring perch).
Running front and rear Mugen 26mm bars, 666 lb (12K) front springs and 777 lb (14K) rear springs on old style Buddy Club shocks (with front and rear Mugen strut tower bars). Lately the tire pressures have been higher than I seem to like so I dropped them down a bit for the street.

Any suggestions, other than selling me your Motons?

The car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Any suggestions...?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you Kidding???

First thing I'd do (if I was you) would be to add the snail.

Second - You've Got to be kidding - you're waaaayyyyyy toooooooo soft.

I'm currently - cough - "recommending" 2500 lb front springs and 4500 lb rear springs. I know - I know - all the pansies will say that's too stiff. But how do they know? Have they run them? Two words: Damper Tuning.

Third - and you Certainly MUST be kidding - sell you my famous Moton's? Do you realize that not only are they possibly among the most famous Moton's on the planet, they are also in Like New condition. I would only consider offers significantly above retail replacement cost.

Scott, who has to get back to writing his autobiography...I'm just getting into the chapter where I give up racing to become a game show host and racing personality/celebrity.