This should be an interesting test of the resale waters.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...%3AIT


Here is what I see:

Good GSR H3 staring point with a custom cage.
"New motor with approximately 5 races on it "
(if not... figure $3K min. for freshened pro-build)

The ebay ad doesn't say any spares... this would be an issue for me.

Unknown Chassis miles?


Ebay price- $6500ish (guess)

Parts needed to go ITS/ H3.

Basic header- $500
Good suspension- $1400ish
Race seat- $600
Maaco paint/ graphics (I can't race a car looking like that) $600
4- Quality Race 15x7" wheels (min 4.)- $800
4- Dry Race tires (min 4.)- $700 (split the diff between Hoosiers and cheapo)
4- Rain tires $600.00 (use GSR wheels on car)
New brake pads and rotors all 4-corners $500.00
RRG.com splitter

I'm guessing the car comes with new belts, transponder, window net, fire ext., steel lines, okay steering wheel, battery and the list goes on???

A $6K starting point can quickly turn into a $12,000 "good" race car before you know it.

What do you see?


"the cheapest part of road racing is the car"... My Dad

Good Luck to the seller if they are on H-T.

 

If thats the Baumann I've heard of that should be a pretty well built car. I also see a bunch of winner decals on the rear quarter window, but who knows if those wins were actually against any competition...

At any rate, I doubt a SS car is a good measure of the market for say an IT or H car. I think people tend to say "Wow a GSR race car for $5000!" instead of "Sure, I can buy it for $5000 but I'll need to put another $6000 in it."

IMO this is why the further you go in prep the more money you lose. You simply can't get the money you put into a race car back out of it and adding stuff does not necessarily increase the value by that amount (if it increases the value at all).

I'm not sure if I'm making my point, so I'll say it like this...
If I buy a SSB Integra for $5000 and then put $3000 in the motor, $1500 in the tranny, and $1500 in the suspension that does not mean I can sell it for $11000. Actually its unlikely in the current market that I could sell it for $11000 and more likely that I *might* get $8000 for it.
But if I buy it for $5000, race it as-is a few times and then sell it, I could probably get $5000 for it (especially if I've been winning).

Recently a guy paid OPM over $30000 to build an ITA car from a bare tub. He wanted a "show car" and he got one. Then he changed his mind and sold it without ever even touching the track with it. He got $22000.
Ouch.
But thats the way it works with race cars.

 

If that is a Baumann car, understand that some (most? all?) of their cars started life as total recovery rebuilds - if my information is accurate. It's worth asking about. This is hearsay, of course.

K

 

[QUOTE=Catch 22]
But if I buy it for $5000, race it as-is a few times and then sell it, I could probably get $5000 for it (especially if I've been winning).

[QUOTE]

Scott-

I'm not up-to-date on my SCCA stuff but isn't a 97 too old for National Showroom Stock racing? I guess you could do regionals? I guess I see the car as an ITS/ H3 project only since it's "glory days" in SS are coming to an end.

 

My fuzzy memory says they extended the lifespan of SS cars to 10 years recently. I don't know if there is extra life in regional versus national events any more.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mohudsolo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My fuzzy memory says they extended the lifespan of SS cars to 10 years recently.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not an SS guy and am unfamiliar with the rules, but I think this is the case.
SS cars will rarely if ever stay competitive for that long, but you can still run them.
I think you can run them regionally for as long as your little heart desires.

That wasn't really my point though &lt;shrug&gt;.

 

This car would be a nice ride to pick just to go run enduros with and get buckets of seat time!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Baumann car, </TD></TR></TABLE>

It is one..

 

I see it as a good, cheap starting point. Its listed for $4k, I would think the used car market being as slow as it is it would sell for that.

For a beginner its a good car to get started with when it comes to getting seat time and a license. (I actually sent the link to my brother since we are planning to go down this route in the near future.) The car has the basics, being an SS car I am sure it could still be registered and titled and driven to the track. To make the car ready for HC or ITA (I think most older SS cars end up in ITA) it would need some money thrown into it.

Its certainly cheap, yes its disheartening to see the used car market this low. I am sure the owner spent a fortune when the car was new and getting it race prepped. But, thats the nature of our hobby/passion you lose more financially but gain tons in self satisfaction.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94accordsedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I see it as a good, cheap starting point. Its listed for $4k, I would think the used car market being as slow as it is it would sell for that.

For a beginner its a good car to get started with when it comes to getting seat time and a license. (I actually sent the link to my brother since we are planning to go down this route in the near future.) The car has the basics, being an SS car I am sure it could still be registered and titled and driven to the track. To make the car ready for HC or ITA (I think most older SS cars end up in ITA) it would need some money thrown into it.

Its certainly cheap, yes its disheartening to see the used car market this low. I am sure the owner spent a fortune when the car was new and getting it race prepped. But, thats the nature of our hobby/passion you lose more financially but gain tons in self satisfaction.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is an ITS car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm not an SS guy and am unfamiliar with the rules, but I think this is the case.
SS cars will rarely if ever stay competitive for that long, but you can still run them.
I think you can run them regionally for as long as your little heart desires.

That wasn't really my point though &lt;shrug&gt;.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Yeah, I guess I missed it.

How can someone buy this car for $5K as you suggested and "win" if it's going to get stomped by 2005 Miatas, RSX's and newer (insert brand) SSB cars. I guess I didn't ever think it was an acceptable SS car. Again, all I see is a starting point for other classes.

My point is simple.

A used car like this GSR (or the ITR) can fool some by thinking they're ready to go racing when IMO there are thousands of dollars still to be spent.


John- who'd never consider racing a half-assed/ half-built/ uncompetitive race car in anything. I'd have to do it right or I'd find another hobby.

&lt;shrug&gt;

 

and has no title. Good luck registering that thing for the street.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JohnW &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
John- who'd never consider racing a half-assed/ half-built/ uncompetitive race car in anything. I'd have to do it right or I'd find another hobby.

&lt;shrug&gt;
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah but a lot of folks don't think that way. A car like this GSR is someone's ticket to quit spectating and start driving on track! Mid-pack or worse? Yes.... but driving!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by madhatter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and has no title. Good luck registering that thing for the street.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why would you need to drive it on the street in the first place?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O’Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why would you need to drive it on the street in the first place?</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94accordsedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For a beginner its a good car to get started with when it comes to getting seat time and a license. (I actually sent the link to my brother since we are planning to go down this route in the near future.) The car has the basics, being an SS car I am sure it could still be registered and titled and driven to the track. To make the car ready for HC or ITA (I think most older SS cars end up in ITA) it would need some money thrown into it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Bolding mine.

I've been there and done that anyway. Won't do it again for a wheel to wheel car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O’Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why would you need to drive it on the street in the first place?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The car in the ebay auction is a learning car at best in my books. For someone just wanting to learn the hassle of a trailer a tow vehicle is too much. Having something that can be driven to the track gives them a bit more of an initiative. Look at the GRM Cooper S, that got driven to the track and went w2w.

For dedicated w2w its not a good idea, but for someone looking for track time its cheaper to just drive the car there.

My 2 pesos.

 

If you think about it, it cost about 10K for a good used truck and cheap trailer. Without the truck and trailer it will cost you about $200 to get towed home if you bust up the race car. How many times can you bust up your car and get towed home before you equal the 10K you would of spent buying the truck and trailer? ....about 50 times.

I for one would never do it because I have too much crap that I bring to the track to fit in the race car, and the car is not comfortable for long drives (no AC, no radio, race seats, stiff as **** suspension). But I can see it argued both ways...

 

Grahovec (sp?) has done well recently in a GSR in SSB. I think you could be competitive regionally for a few years with this car depending upon who showed up.

But youre right, to podium at the runoffs you need to spend alot of money, have some luck, and drive the wheels off of it for 45 minutes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If that is a Baumann car, understand that some (most? all?) of their cars started life as total recovery rebuilds - if my information is accurate. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It is a Jurgen Baumann car and they are generally the racing body shop of note in northern Ohio. Not only good racers and prep folks it their own right but I know of a number of crashed racecars they have put back together and heard of a brand new, two race old and now totalled Mini Cooper S that they are looking at now. If I had work to be done, I would definately consider them for it.

The lack of a title to me waves that flag that it is not even a salvage title car and thus makes me wonder if the car was not assembled out of a number of wreck parts and possible a spliced shell. Not saying anything bad at all about the car or them, just that this fact needs to be taken into account when considering value. If someone wants a baseline car to race then this could be a very good deal and a very good car but to me the value needs to be notched down a good step for not being an original car. I have had a few salvage title and clipped cars so it is not an automatic kiss of death but the basic fact does need consideration.

I saw it on eBay myself last night and thought it looked like a good opportunity with the right understanding.