- The F1 race was a total snoozer. The fiasco at Indy at least added some excitement to things. I think the most entertaining moment of the weekend was Albers qualifying run (again), and thats pretty friggin sad.
Score -

- NASCAR was marginally entertaining and Boris starting up front added a little extra interest for me. Sadly, Boris fell back immediately and I fell asleep in my chair.
Score -

- Speed Touring was a fair race. A little too much carnage there on that one lap, but overall entertaining and fun to watch even if Auberlin was never even challenged.
Score -

Speed GT - Only held my Interest because of Galati in the Volvo and the GTO being up front for the first time. Otherwise the Caddys just wasted the field and the win was never a question.
Score -

IRL - By far the best race of the weekend. Multiple lead changes and the win was in question until the finish line was crossed (with .02 seconds covering 3 cars). Danica, in spite of finishing 9th (I think) did a surperb job for a rookie. At one point she charged from 16th to 5th only to lose positions on the final pit stop. Once she gets better at starts and in/out laps, she will be a consistent challenger for wins.
These guys are currently putting on the bes show in racing. 210+ mph and three wide with photo finishes. This comes through my TV far better than the technology of F1 and its pit lane passes.
Score -

JMHO.

Scott, who never spends 2 whole days on the couch and is really really bored.

 

I happened to catch the Star Mazda Championship race at Road Atlanta. Most exciting racing I've seen in long time. There was so much passing, it made F1 look like a Solo 1. Very entertaining

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
IRL - By far the best race of the weekend. Multiple lead changes and the win was in question until the finish line was crossed (with .02 seconds covering 3 cars). Danica, in spite of finishing 9th (I think) did a surperb job for a rookie. At one point she charged from 16th to 5th only to lose positions on the final pit stop. Once she gets better at starts and in/out laps, she will be a consistent challenger for wins.
These guys are currently putting on the bes show in racing. 210+ mph and three wide with photo finishes. This comes through my TV far better than the technology of F1 and its pit lane passes.
Score -

JMHO.

Scott, who never spends 2 whole days on the couch and is really really bored.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Remember how when you were a kid, occasionally you'd build a slot car track that was an oval so big you never had to lift? And remember how if both cars left the line at the same time they'd stay side by side around the whole track, since you never had to lift? And remember how if you put another car or two on one of the other lanes, they'd never be able to pass, no matter how hard they tried? Think about it.

Agreed on the boredom part, I wish I could've gone to Peru for national tour as planned, but at least I get to autocross tomorrow.

 

I watched WC,IRL,, tran ams and...

The star mazda series was by far the best racing i saw. TONS of passing .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I happened to catch the Star Mazda Championship race at Road Atlanta.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I saw that one a few weeks ago. I agree, that was a great race.
And the pass by Matos going into turn 10a was simply brilliant. The guy he passed (can't remember the name) had to be devastated about being own3d like that. One of the best setups/passes I've ever seen.

 

Sorry I missed the IRL race. Saw the hilights, looked awesome. Fell asleep during the Trans Am race. Snoozer. These guys (in the 14 cars entered) running in Trans Am ought to do like so many Trans Am teams already have and jump ship to SWC-GT. Heck'ova lot better exposure and actually more than a half dozen cars running at the end.

SCW-GT - damned I wish Hayner coulda' held on for a podium. The Goat looks awsome in race trim. Is kinda getting old seeing the Caddies romp, but I guess it's not their duty to slow down, SCCA Pro has to slow 'em down, I guess. Must be nice to have deep pockets like Caddy.

Star Mazda was awesome. It was nice seeing the replay after having watched it in person from the hill over turn 5.

BUT, just remember - the biggest race of the weekend is tomorrow. ALMS from Lime Rock, live on SPEED.

Corvette is gonna stomp some Saleen and Maserati ****.

 

They also had the gp2 sprint race on at like 4 in the morning, good race IMO, lots of lock ups and overtaking

 

I am with you on the IRL race.. Damn i need to put this deal together for IPS races later this year.. i HATE sitting on my couch watching those.

As far as the slot car.. I can see a little corrolation beacause of the flat out aspect, but.. If you think those cars on just on rails and circling then you didn't see Vitor's last charge sing the draft, or Scheckter's two very good saves, or the cars running within inches of each other where drivers and spotters work together which fighting areo push/loose and unsettled cars.

Also.. watching the in car videos there wasn't as much flat out as you would think, there was quite a few of gear changes, and you could see where drivers had to get out of the gas.. etc

Then the green flag stops produced the fast in and out laps (Kannan wiggling the car fighting for traction on the apron on one of his out laps was really good)

I can go on and on.. Its a hell of a show.

Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racerjon1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am with you on the IRL race.. Damn i need to put this deal together for IPS races later this year.. i HATE sitting on my couch watching those.

As far as the slot car.. I can see a little corrolation beacause of the flat out aspect, but.. If you think those cars on just on rails and circling then you didn't see Vitor's last charge sing the draft, or Scheckter's two very good saves, or the cars running within inches of each other where drivers and spotters work together which fighting areo push/loose and unsettled cars.

Also.. watching the in car videos there wasn't as much flat out as you would think, there was quite a few of gear changes, and you could see where drivers had to get out of the gas.. etc

Then the green flag stops produced the fast in and out laps (Kannan wiggling the car fighting for traction on the apron on one of his out laps was really good)

I can go on and on.. Its a hell of a show.

Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not going to say it is easy to drive like so many IRL bashers do, but the IRL formula makes having talent a secondary requirement behind having the most powerful car. Too much downforce, too much drag, not enough power.

If Vitor's car really was faster or he really could drive better than Wheldon or Kanaan, there'd still be no way for him to win because all the cars stay glued at the same speed once they hit max power.

Pop quiz: How many car races did Sam Hornish win before driving for Panther Racing? How many after? The guy is a career mid-packer in road racing who became a champion in the IRL because of having the best car on the superspeedways. If he ever moves over to NASCAR like rumored, he'll get eaten alive like so many other mid-pack road racers before him.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1gTeg90 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fell asleep during the Trans Am race. Snoozer. These guys (in the 14 cars entered) running in Trans Am ought to do like so many Trans Am teams already have and jump ship to SWC-GT. Heck'ova lot better exposure and actually more than a half dozen cars running at the end.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep, Trans-Am sucks these days. It is little more than Paul Gentilozzi's semi-private racing series for him, his teammates, and his friends.

 

Hey! I'm related to that guy (by marriage ). I agree it takes a different kind of talent to succeed in the IRL, maybe it's just really good reflexes and good luck, but it's something I don't have, that's for sure, and it's fun to watch, that's for sure too.

 

Hornish won no races before PDM.. Started with PDM Racing and showed enough speed to get hired. (which is how it works)

Since he left.. 1 I think.. maybe 2. I dont know whats up with him and Penske, other than he has the most promise of any of the Americans in the series so far, so untill a faster American comes along in IRL, he will be there.

Hornish did well with Pancho Carter as a spotter, they were a good team, which is why in my post I made mention of that, working with someone who knows you like that helps a great deal in that series.

As far as $/equipment, thats the same in any series. you see it more pronounced in IRL because of the different cars and the downforce engineering aspect, but its the same with F1 or CART, or ALMS.. .. drivers can still make up some positions based on skill as they might at Daytona or Formula Mazda or SCCA.. etc. Thats just how racing goes.

Whatever brings the drivers to the front, IRL is sitll putting on a great show, and it made for the best major race series to watch this weekend, and has been the most exciting consistantly for a few years now.

Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racerjon1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as $/equipment, thats the same in any series. you see it more pronounced in IRL because of the different cars and the downforce engineering aspect, but its the same with F1 or CART, or ALMS.. .. drivers can still make up some positions based on skill as they might at Daytona or Formula Mazda or SCCA.. etc. Thats just how racing goes. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, but my biggest issue is with the massive amounts of downforce on the cars. The worst part is, they have mandated minimum angles, which is what keeps the cars glued to the track. Let them run whatever they want and they'd be up to 225 or so, but they'd also be a bit more spread out, and the driver who could handle the riskier setup is the one who would be closer to the front, rather than just the ones with the most horsepower.

My opinion of the IRL's business philosophy wont change anytime soon (it sucks, and it shows in the lack of fan and sponsor interest), but they'd gain so much of my respect for the on-track product if they'd remove some of that downforce and let the drivers fight the cars to get up front. Right now, the only ovals where the drivers have to lift or brake are the short ovals like Phoenix or Richmond. Probably not a coincidence that those tracks were the ones that Danica struggled on the most...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O’Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

but the IRL formula makes having talent a secondary requirement behind having the most powerful car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

[Kylevoice] Holy **** dude [/Kylevoice]

You can't possibly be serious.
Remember that these guys (and gal) are typically running in the 210 to 220mph range and pulling 3+ Gs in every corner. If you think someone who is short on talent can do well in a machine like this you are dilusional.
Just the reflexes and coordination to catch one of these cars when they break loose (and if you're paying attention you see that they break loose ALOT) is mind boggling. And the *****... My God. Don't kid yourself my friend, 3 wide at 210+ mph takes Hanes loaded with big stainless steel wrecking *****.
Drafting, 3 wide, cross winds, dirty air...
Yeah... Slot cars. You keep telling yourself that.

I'm becoming a bigger IRL fan every day.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Trans Am. I put it on, saw that there were 14 cars there (6 of which broke or crashed), got all sad and weepy and changed the channel.

Scott, who is old enough to remember when Trans Am kicked ***.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[Kylevoice] Holy **** dude [/Kylevoice]

You can't possibly be serious.
Remember that these guys (and gal) are typically running in the 210 to 220mph range and pulling 3+ Gs in every corner. If you think someone who is short on talent can do well in a machine like this you are dilusional.
Just the reflexes and coordination to catch one of these cars when they break loose (and if you're paying attention you see that they break loose ALOT) is mind boggling. And the *****... My God. Don't kid yourself my friend, 3 wide at 210+ mph takes Hanes loaded with big stainless steel wrecking *****.
Drafting, 3 wide, cross winds, dirty air...
Yeah... Slot cars. You keep telling yourself that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Obviously anyone who is going to pass an IRL rookie test is going to have the talent to drive one of the cars, I wont argue that, but I'm talking about the relative talent required to win. How else can you explain how guys who couldn't even finish in top 10 in Indy Lights like Jaques Lazier could become race winners in the IRL? Hell, Shigeaki Hattori got booted from CART for poor driving and he had no problems leading races in IRL during his stint there!

The whole point behind my statement is this: Put a fast driver in a slow car on an IRL road course or short oval, and he may be able to run mid-pack or higher. Put that same driver in the same slow car on an IRL superspeedway, and all the talent in the world wont help him.

Want the proof? Lets look at two drivers. One who is a proven winner in Atlantics, (Alex Barron) driving for a smaller team with underpowered Toyotas, and another who hasn't won anything since karting in 1998 (Danica Patrick), driving for the best team with the best engines.

Alex Barron starting position at Phoenix, St. Petersburg, and Richmond: 16th, 13th, 9th
Danica Patrick starting position at Phoenix, St. Petersburg, and Richmond: 18th, 15th, 21st (DFL)

Clearly Alex has shown the superior ability to pilot an Indy Car in these types of courses. Doubt Rahal has ever shown interest in hiring him, despite his Atlantics championship and all of Rahal's spewing of "we need more American drivers in this series" throughout the late 90s.

Now move on to the superspeedways, where most laps are done flat out:

Alex Barron starting position at Homestead, Japan, Indy, Texas, and Kansas: 17th, 16th, 22nd, 20th, 18th
Danica Patrick starting position at Homestead, Japan, Indy, Texas, and Kansas: 9th, 2nd, 4th 3rd, 1st

With thwing angle limited to keep the cars planted, it seems that whoever has the most horsepower is going to be the one with the advantage, as you can't really setup around it, IMHO.

My problem with the IRL superspeedway races is that they are so repetitive. I can see one or two races like this, but half the schedule is the same. 190 laps of a pack driving flat out, followed by 4-5 cars breaking away due to attrition or pit stops. Of course, they are side by side, like its a pace lap, and neither car can get away from the other because they are both so restricted. And, on top of that, there is no room for 3rd on down to make a pass, only to hope that they beat the car next to them. Of course, they'll come across the line side by side, with the announcers screaming about how close the finish was, but you knew how it was going to end long before the white flag was thrown.

It'd be different if this stuff was popular, but the ratings and attendence show that no one really cares about the series. Don't kid yourself with the crowd size today, it was part of the ISC "extortion pack" where the purchase of IRL tickets is mandatory if you want seats to the Cup race.


Modified by Sean O'Gorman at 12:46 AM 7/4/2005

 

Says the guy who has had 0 days on track.

Sorry to bust your ***** on that one, but you're way out in left field with your "IRL hatin"

Even if it isnt as "good" as F1 or whatever it takes a hell of a lot of skill and talent to run in any televised pro racing series.

 

Check after the edit y0

It is at least worth considering as a valid point.

 

Also, some quotes provided to me by a late model racer who used to be a die-hard IRL fan until they morphed into CART II:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"It was actually fun, because you're back fully driving again in these trucks. Ninety percent of the tracks we go to in the IRL, you're flat-out. I was having to lift off the corners some here." - Buddy Rice

"I think as a race car driver, in stock cars you're a bigger piece of what it takes to win races," Yeley said. "In the IRL, if you don't have a good engineer, the most horsepower, no matter how good a race car driver you are, you're gonna get beat." - J.J. Yeley</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

OK, I read your argument and considered it.
But I ask you, how does this make the TRL different from any other big racing series. Its the old "Could Schumacher win in a Minardi" argument over and over again and the answer is "No." The answer is always "No."

Look at Mike Galati in that POS Mercedes... How do you think he'd be doing in a Realtime or Tri Point car?
Where would Ruebens be if he was in a Jordan?

Yes, in pro racing the best cars and best teams DO matter. I won't argue that. Its the truth and its the truth everywhere.
But look at the "Top Teams" in the IRL... Penske, Ganassi, Rahal, A/G, Panther... Thats 13 cars right there that can (and have) win on any given weekend. Does F1 have 13 competitive cars every weekend? World Challenge? Champ Car?
The answer is, again, "No."
Hell, Trans Am only managed to have 14 cars on the grid at Cleveland.

So hate on IRL all you want, but at the end of the day they are the only group out there that is putting on racing that is as TV friendly and competitive as NASCAR.

PS - Danica vs. Alex Barron...
2 Things:
1. Part of being a pro racer is getting yourself a good ride. Danica got a better one than Alex. Too bad for him, but theres lots of excellent drivers out there with no ride at all.
2. She's a rookie. Female or not, she's doing a damned good job considering she's a rookie

 

agreed great races today lots of carnage!!! go dan wheldon!!

 

GP2 race was exciting too.

Sean who now regrets spending the evening arguing with a bunch of retards on the SpeedTV forum while watching the IRL race.

 

SpeedTV forum... ug.

I used to go there sometimes, but really thats a weird place.. after I saw some of their "LOTI" gys writingon the bricks at Indy in 04 at the pit walk i saw the kind of people that were there.

Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com

 

I agree, the GP2 race was pretty damned good. If the FM race that was on yesterday was the Road Atlanta round I agree, it was a fantastic race. RJ and I watched that one in person. If Matos gets a ride in a higher series he is gonna do some things.

The WC Touring race was good as usual but like Scott said, there is really only 3 or 4 teams that are in the fight for the win. They've got great drivers, excellent development programs, and are a level above the competition for the most part. If World Challenge continues to grow and entices more sponsors I think we'll see more teams join the lead group.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Look at Mike Galati in that POS Mercedes... How do you think he'd be doing in a Realtime or Tri Point car?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That car is no POS.
We were set up next to them all weekend, that is a serious car with a series team effort to go with it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK, I read your argument and considered it.
But I ask you, how does this make the TRL different from any other big racing series. Its the old "Could Schumacher win in a Minardi" argument over and over again and the answer is "No." The answer is always "No."

Look at Mike Galati in that POS Mercedes... How do you think he'd be doing in a Realtime or Tri Point car?
Where would Ruebens be if he was in a Jordan?

Yes, in pro racing the best cars and best teams DO matter. I won't argue that. Its the truth and its the truth everywhere.
But look at the "Top Teams" in the IRL... Penske, Ganassi, Rahal, A/G, Panther... Thats 13 cars right there that can (and have) win on any given weekend. Does F1 have 13 competitive cars every weekend? World Challenge? Champ Car?
The answer is, again, "No."
Hell, Trans Am only managed to have 14 cars on the grid at Cleveland.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know that a good driver in a bad car isn't likely to be competitive, it is just the nature of racing. However, it isn't normal for an average or worse driver (such as Hornish) to be a race winner or even a champion, unless you are talking about the Indy Racing League, or perhaps a 4 car ALMS race.

Of course, all of this wouldn't be an issue if the cokehead who runs IMS didn't split the sport in two only to turn his series into a watered down version of what CART used to be, but with 1/10th the popularity, all the sponsors gone, and the engine manufacturers all on the verge of bailing. The team owners aren't innocent either, selfish team owners like Rahal and Ganassi have done just as much damage to the sport. I've about lost all interest in open wheel racing (I skipped the Cleveland GP for the first time in 10 years to go run a Prosolo instead), and I'd hope that enough people start feeling the same that the two sides realize they have to come together, and have to put someone in charge who does have a clue (i.e. no one currently involved in the sport, with the possible exception of Penske).