Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel
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From: Kings Mt., NC
Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel
Alrighty then. As some of you may be aware, GIGANTOR is for sale (IM me for details, if interested). It has proven to be extremely capable for the task I purchased it for. It holds my chit and tows my chit well. I have to keep looking in the mirror to make sure the car/trailer are still there. The A/C is busted and will be $$$ to fix. Plus, when I go get a load of mulch, it sucks for that. So I want me a truck....
I found one fairly local. 1997 Dodge 2500 SLT extend cab long bed 5 speed (manual) 2wd w/Cummins turbo diesel. 233,000 miles. Runs like a damn champ and is way cleaner than any 233,000 mile vehicle should be. Mostly highway miles (writing on the cruise button is worn off), and no 5th wheel hitch so it hasn't towed anything SERIOUS. Price: $7K.
Cummins TDs are generally regarded as unbustable. The 5 speed is nice since there's really only a clutch to worry about. The thing has a damn short final drive, as 5th gear @ 58mph spins the engine to 2000 rpms (redline = 3000).
Thoughts? Am I leaping from a perfectly good frying pan into the fire? Anyone know of issues with this engine?
Modified by MaddMatt at 9:04 AM 6/29/2005
I found one fairly local. 1997 Dodge 2500 SLT extend cab long bed 5 speed (manual) 2wd w/Cummins turbo diesel. 233,000 miles. Runs like a damn champ and is way cleaner than any 233,000 mile vehicle should be. Mostly highway miles (writing on the cruise button is worn off), and no 5th wheel hitch so it hasn't towed anything SERIOUS. Price: $7K.
Cummins TDs are generally regarded as unbustable. The 5 speed is nice since there's really only a clutch to worry about. The thing has a damn short final drive, as 5th gear @ 58mph spins the engine to 2000 rpms (redline = 3000).
Thoughts? Am I leaping from a perfectly good frying pan into the fire? Anyone know of issues with this engine?
Modified by MaddMatt at 9:04 AM 6/29/2005
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From: Haymarket, VA, USA
Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (MaddMatt)
check http://www.turbodieselregister.com
every generation of RAMs had its share of issues. Find the appropriate forum for that year and start reading.
I'd check the suspension balljoints, and the driveshaft u-joints. I think the engine themselves are fairly hard to kill, but the lift pump is the weak link, as I recall.
every generation of RAMs had its share of issues. Find the appropriate forum for that year and start reading.
I'd check the suspension balljoints, and the driveshaft u-joints. I think the engine themselves are fairly hard to kill, but the lift pump is the weak link, as I recall.
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Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (MaddMatt)
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Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (SJR)
Make sure you have 2k in the bank to take care of an injector pump if it goes.. With any diesel... Lift pumps (170$ or so)lifetime warrenty with NAPA ones] go out, almost smart to have a spare because they arn't hard to change. 5 speed, I love it! Just do NOT lug 5th gear around, make sure your rpms are above 1600 before you floor it in 5th.
At around 75mph, my 5 speed is at 2300 or so, right in the sweet spot. I think mine has the mid gearing. 3.70 or something...
At around 75mph, my 5 speed is at 2300 or so, right in the sweet spot. I think mine has the mid gearing. 3.70 or something...
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From: Elkton, MD, 21921
Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (Honda318dx)
hi.
i have some good input for you on this....
we have a 97 2500 CTD here at work, and it has about 170k miles on it. almost all towing a 8k lb trailer. it is a 5 sp manual. it has the 4.10 gear (like the one you are looking at). it doesn't sound happy going more than 70 mph; it will bury the tach at 3k rpm, which is just a hair over 80 mph. it sounds really unhappy going that fast!!!!! when i drive it, i keep it around 60-65 mph; that is the sweet spot with the 4.10 gear.
there were problems with the early New Venture 5sp gearbox, if used to tow alot, especially if not driven gently. we ripped 5th gear off the shaft at about 130k miles. very common problem and well documented.
we have also had some problems with the lift pump, as corey said.
we had a vacuum problem with the 4wd system, which was repaired.
the heating and vent system have failed totally; it is jammed in the defrost position. the ac doesn't work anymore.
the cummins motor (12 valve) is awesome; its a real workhorse, and we have never had any probs with it. my only complaint is it is really noisey, smoky, and runs poorly until it completely warms up. but this is the tradeoff for running an older cummins.
well, hope that helps some!
todd
i have some good input for you on this....
we have a 97 2500 CTD here at work, and it has about 170k miles on it. almost all towing a 8k lb trailer. it is a 5 sp manual. it has the 4.10 gear (like the one you are looking at). it doesn't sound happy going more than 70 mph; it will bury the tach at 3k rpm, which is just a hair over 80 mph. it sounds really unhappy going that fast!!!!! when i drive it, i keep it around 60-65 mph; that is the sweet spot with the 4.10 gear.
there were problems with the early New Venture 5sp gearbox, if used to tow alot, especially if not driven gently. we ripped 5th gear off the shaft at about 130k miles. very common problem and well documented.
we have also had some problems with the lift pump, as corey said.
we had a vacuum problem with the 4wd system, which was repaired.
the heating and vent system have failed totally; it is jammed in the defrost position. the ac doesn't work anymore.
the cummins motor (12 valve) is awesome; its a real workhorse, and we have never had any probs with it. my only complaint is it is really noisey, smoky, and runs poorly until it completely warms up. but this is the tradeoff for running an older cummins.
well, hope that helps some!
todd
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Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (MaddMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">233,000 miles.
(snip...)
Am I leaping from a perfectly good frying pan into the fire?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes. Actually you might be gingerly climbing out of the frying pan to stand directly over the burner. Why use a middle man?
The service interval on a Cummins is 350K, so the motor will be fine. It's just the entire rest of the truck attached to said motor that I would worry about. Electrics, pumps, vacuum this, lift pump that...it all gets very expensive. Not to mention things like master cylinders, A/C components, heater cores, interior bits...
Oh, and with regard to the manual trans, not necessarily true that you just have the clutch to worry about. You also get syncros, throwout bearings, release bearings, and whatever nightmare "ripped 5th gear off" thing Todd mentioned. It's not an excuse to buy a truck with a quarter of a million miles on it...
Didn't you star in the prequel to this movie just recently?
--Karl, who will remind Matt, again, of the rule...pick two...
(snip...)
Am I leaping from a perfectly good frying pan into the fire?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes. Actually you might be gingerly climbing out of the frying pan to stand directly over the burner. Why use a middle man?
The service interval on a Cummins is 350K, so the motor will be fine. It's just the entire rest of the truck attached to said motor that I would worry about. Electrics, pumps, vacuum this, lift pump that...it all gets very expensive. Not to mention things like master cylinders, A/C components, heater cores, interior bits...
Oh, and with regard to the manual trans, not necessarily true that you just have the clutch to worry about. You also get syncros, throwout bearings, release bearings, and whatever nightmare "ripped 5th gear off" thing Todd mentioned. It's not an excuse to buy a truck with a quarter of a million miles on it...
Didn't you star in the prequel to this movie just recently?
--Karl, who will remind Matt, again, of the rule...pick two...
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From: Kings Mt., NC
Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (krshultz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">--Karl, who will remind Matt, again, of the rule...pick two...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, and this one's newer (by 9 years), and more than twice what I paid for the van, so it MUST be good. Or at least better. I'll take better.....
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, and this one's newer (by 9 years), and more than twice what I paid for the van, so it MUST be good. Or at least better. I'll take better.....
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From: Cary, NC
Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (MaddMatt)
If you care to step down off of your diesel pickemup truck high-horse, I will be having a well-maintained 130k 7.4l K2500 Suburban for sale for not much more than that million-mile truck.
Mulch? Get a utility trailer.
Mulch? Get a utility trailer.
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Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (Honda318dx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Make sure you have 2k in the bank to take care of an injector pump if it goes.. With any diesel... Lift pumps (170$ or so)lifetime warrenty with NAPA ones] go out, almost smart to have a spare because they arn't hard to change. 5 speed, I love it! Just do NOT lug 5th gear around, make sure your rpms are above 1600 before you floor it in 5th.
At around 75mph, my 5 speed is at 2300 or so, right in the sweet spot. I think mine has the mid gearing. 3.70 or something...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Corey, he is looking at a 97 which means it is a 12v which has the mechanical injection pump, which seem to be bullet proof. With the mileage I would worry more about calipers and bearings and u-jointsand normal wear items. The 12v motor is fine. The 5spd is a great touch and I wish mine was not auto.
I think if the price is right this is a good buy. With the 12v many extra poonies can be squeezed out just with minor mods such as a fuel plate and timing and an intake and 4" exhaust. The Cummins is soSO Easy to work on also! I say go for it! Like many have said the http://www.turbodieselregister.com will give you all the info you could want!
At around 75mph, my 5 speed is at 2300 or so, right in the sweet spot. I think mine has the mid gearing. 3.70 or something...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Corey, he is looking at a 97 which means it is a 12v which has the mechanical injection pump, which seem to be bullet proof. With the mileage I would worry more about calipers and bearings and u-jointsand normal wear items. The 12v motor is fine. The 5spd is a great touch and I wish mine was not auto.
I think if the price is right this is a good buy. With the 12v many extra poonies can be squeezed out just with minor mods such as a fuel plate and timing and an intake and 4" exhaust. The Cummins is soSO Easy to work on also! I say go for it! Like many have said the http://www.turbodieselregister.com will give you all the info you could want!
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Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (MaddMatt)
I own a '95 2500 CTD. Just turned 177,000 miles. Truck runs awesome.
The engine. Not to problematic at all. As said 350-400,000 miles is the normal service life out of these. The only problem I can think of is the "Killer Dowl Pin". It's an easy fix though. You can read all about it on TDR. I fixed mine with the kit from TST.
The rest of the truck. You are luckier I guess with having the NV4500. I am stuck with the 47RH. The only good thing for me is mine was rebuilt about 43,000 miles ago. We'll see how that goes.
Another common problem on the trucks is the fuel sending units go bad all the time. It's really just a poor design by the MFG. The plastic washers and grommets they use just wear out over time with the float arm moving up and down so much and after a while the dial just stops moving along with it which keeps the needle buried at E.
These trucks have a fairly poorly designed front track bar and steering linkage set-up and they develop some steering play. They go through ball joints and tie rod ends etc... like they're nothing. There are after market fixes like Luk's Links which are heavy duty end links and ball joints and the like and a company called DSS which makes a track bar kit which converts to the near indestructible '03+ track bar. It's less noticeable with quality balanced tires and a good alignment since when I bought the truck it had some harsh tires and poor alignment, but I still would like to reduce the slop even more.
The truck itself was an original owner and part of a fleet with meticulous dealer service records, so that was a plus. I have continued the maintenance in typical obsessive compulsive fashion.
The only other things I've done are basic wear and tear. The rear left wheel cylinder went out so I replaced those and went ahead and replaced the rear shoes while I was at it. I also just recently replaced the front rotors and Hawk SD front pads. The truck has a phenomenal pedal feel and braking ability now. Amazing what fresh brakes, bleed and adjust will do.
The four wheel drive works great. I guess the only thing you may worry about is the fact that the Dodge's do not have locking front hubs, so the front axles are always spinning. I don't really consider it a problem, but you may not want that.
I love my truck and plan on eventually upgrading to one of the newer Dodge 3500's.
-Jim, who is knocking on the biggest piece of wood he can find.
The engine. Not to problematic at all. As said 350-400,000 miles is the normal service life out of these. The only problem I can think of is the "Killer Dowl Pin". It's an easy fix though. You can read all about it on TDR. I fixed mine with the kit from TST.
The rest of the truck. You are luckier I guess with having the NV4500. I am stuck with the 47RH. The only good thing for me is mine was rebuilt about 43,000 miles ago. We'll see how that goes.
Another common problem on the trucks is the fuel sending units go bad all the time. It's really just a poor design by the MFG. The plastic washers and grommets they use just wear out over time with the float arm moving up and down so much and after a while the dial just stops moving along with it which keeps the needle buried at E.
These trucks have a fairly poorly designed front track bar and steering linkage set-up and they develop some steering play. They go through ball joints and tie rod ends etc... like they're nothing. There are after market fixes like Luk's Links which are heavy duty end links and ball joints and the like and a company called DSS which makes a track bar kit which converts to the near indestructible '03+ track bar. It's less noticeable with quality balanced tires and a good alignment since when I bought the truck it had some harsh tires and poor alignment, but I still would like to reduce the slop even more.
The truck itself was an original owner and part of a fleet with meticulous dealer service records, so that was a plus. I have continued the maintenance in typical obsessive compulsive fashion.
The only other things I've done are basic wear and tear. The rear left wheel cylinder went out so I replaced those and went ahead and replaced the rear shoes while I was at it. I also just recently replaced the front rotors and Hawk SD front pads. The truck has a phenomenal pedal feel and braking ability now. Amazing what fresh brakes, bleed and adjust will do.
The four wheel drive works great. I guess the only thing you may worry about is the fact that the Dodge's do not have locking front hubs, so the front axles are always spinning. I don't really consider it a problem, but you may not want that.
I love my truck and plan on eventually upgrading to one of the newer Dodge 3500's.
-Jim, who is knocking on the biggest piece of wood he can find.
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From: Kings Mt., NC
Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (Mr Hammond)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I will be having a well-maintained 130k 7.4l K2500 Suburban for sale for not much more than that million-mile truck.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Mike, no offense my friend, but I wouldn't buy a used GM product even from you....
The fuel sending unit is busted, the owner has a new one ready to install. I'm sure the "KDP" needs to be done as "oil all over the place" on the engine is a sign of that. And more than one person has told me that's a piece of cake to fix. The track bar thing sounds like an easy fix as well, if that's a problem. The 5th gear thing doesn't *really* concern me much as everyone indicated it'll happen while pulling HEAVY loads. I doubt my car on a trailer will be over 5000 lbs.
The 4.something rear end is concerning me. I'd like to be able to tow comfortably at 70mph with the A/C on and get 15+ mpg. I may have to source a 3.7 rear end.
Mike, no offense my friend, but I wouldn't buy a used GM product even from you....
The fuel sending unit is busted, the owner has a new one ready to install. I'm sure the "KDP" needs to be done as "oil all over the place" on the engine is a sign of that. And more than one person has told me that's a piece of cake to fix. The track bar thing sounds like an easy fix as well, if that's a problem. The 5th gear thing doesn't *really* concern me much as everyone indicated it'll happen while pulling HEAVY loads. I doubt my car on a trailer will be over 5000 lbs.
The 4.something rear end is concerning me. I'd like to be able to tow comfortably at 70mph with the A/C on and get 15+ mpg. I may have to source a 3.7 rear end.
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Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (MaddMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The 4.something rear end is concerning me. I'd like to be able to tow comfortably at 70mph with the A/C on and get 15+ mpg. I may have to source a 3.7 rear end. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah none of those problems are really a pain to fix. You might want to look into a 3.54. I was contemplating a 4.10 since I live in the city, work in the city, play in the city etc... BUT I do not want to sacrifice my cruising speed. I'm already @ 2,000RPM @ 70mph. I'm thinking of actually bumping up a size or two tire size to help in the department a bit more.
Yeah none of those problems are really a pain to fix. You might want to look into a 3.54. I was contemplating a 4.10 since I live in the city, work in the city, play in the city etc... BUT I do not want to sacrifice my cruising speed. I'm already @ 2,000RPM @ 70mph. I'm thinking of actually bumping up a size or two tire size to help in the department a bit more.
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Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (MaddMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The 4.something rear end is concerning me. I'd like to be able to tow comfortably at 70mph with the A/C on and get 15+ mpg. I may have to source a 3.7 rear end. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Matt, I really think you should keep looking. It's got the wrong rear end on it, it's got a quarter of a million miles on it. Right out of the box you would be buying this thing knowing that you'll have to fix something, which is the rear end. You and I know the packs we tow with travel at 75-80.
I know it's cheap, but there's a reason why. I should call you and talk you off this particular ledge.
Want first dibs on my Excursion if I decide to get out? I'm averaging 19mpg right now. In leather lined comfort, with an A/C system that works too well - I have to turn it down. You've ridden in the thing, you know you want it...
Matt, I really think you should keep looking. It's got the wrong rear end on it, it's got a quarter of a million miles on it. Right out of the box you would be buying this thing knowing that you'll have to fix something, which is the rear end. You and I know the packs we tow with travel at 75-80.
I know it's cheap, but there's a reason why. I should call you and talk you off this particular ledge.
Want first dibs on my Excursion if I decide to get out? I'm averaging 19mpg right now. In leather lined comfort, with an A/C system that works too well - I have to turn it down. You've ridden in the thing, you know you want it...
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From: Shelby, NC
Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (krshultz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Want first dibs on my Excursion if I decide to get out? I'm averaging 19mpg right now. In leather lined comfort, with an A/C system that works too well - I have to turn it down. You've ridden in the thing, you know you want it...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, I just need about 9 more months.
Want first dibs on my Excursion if I decide to get out? I'm averaging 19mpg right now. In leather lined comfort, with an A/C system that works too well - I have to turn it down. You've ridden in the thing, you know you want it...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, I just need about 9 more months.
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From: Plotting My Revenge
Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (metalworker)
I love Karl's short bus, but only because I don't own it.
Its HUGE, comfy, powerful, everything works very well, HUGE, and could tow my house off its foundation. Thats all great, but in the end I'd need a bigger driveway.
But it certainly is a comfy ride from the track back to the Hotel. Limo-esque.
Its HUGE, comfy, powerful, everything works very well, HUGE, and could tow my house off its foundation. Thats all great, but in the end I'd need a bigger driveway.
But it certainly is a comfy ride from the track back to the Hotel. Limo-esque.
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From: formerly elgorey, VIRginia
Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (Catch 22)
what do you guys think of this truck?
http://washingtondc.craigslist....html
http://washingtondc.craigslist....html
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Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (elgorey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do you guys think of this truck?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Personally I'd steer clear of anything with a 5th wheel hitch...because you KNOW it's been towing something heavy for a lot of miles.
JMO.
Personally I'd steer clear of anything with a 5th wheel hitch...because you KNOW it's been towing something heavy for a lot of miles.
JMO.
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From: Charlotte
Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (elgorey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do you guys think of this truck?</TD></TR></TABLE>
it has the "F" word in the ad.....
it has the "F" word in the ad.....
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Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (Willard)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Personally I'd steer clear of anything with a 5th wheel hitch...because you KNOW it's been towing something heavy for a lot of miles.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Best advice on this thread so far....
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's got the wrong rear end on it,</TD></TR></TABLE> Not for towing, just wrong for towing AND great mileage.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You and I know the packs we tow with travel at 75-80.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Unfortunately, I haven't caravanned with anyone to the track in 2 years....
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Best advice on this thread so far....
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's got the wrong rear end on it,</TD></TR></TABLE> Not for towing, just wrong for towing AND great mileage.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You and I know the packs we tow with travel at 75-80.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Unfortunately, I haven't caravanned with anyone to the track in 2 years....
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From: Elkton, MD, 21921
Re: Tow vehicle discussion: Dodge Cummings diesel (MaddMatt)
hi again, matt!
the reason we ordered our shop truck with the 4.10 rear was that we knew we'd be towing a heavy load frequently in the mountains. it's great for that! and it will do 65 without complaining too much; around 70 it starts to sound strained, and above that it really sounds like its revving too high for a diesel.... remember, this is a company vehicle, and the head-ups really didn't want the employees speeding with a trailer on, anyway!
that being said, i'd prefer the longer gearing for more relaxed highway cruising. and, our dodge only gets about 12 mpg towing at 65-70.
if i were you, i'd be interested in it, but i'd surely "low-ball" the guy. make him a low low offer; he may not be able to sell it with those miles, and he may come back to you in a month and agree to a low price!
good luck with it!
todd
the reason we ordered our shop truck with the 4.10 rear was that we knew we'd be towing a heavy load frequently in the mountains. it's great for that! and it will do 65 without complaining too much; around 70 it starts to sound strained, and above that it really sounds like its revving too high for a diesel.... remember, this is a company vehicle, and the head-ups really didn't want the employees speeding with a trailer on, anyway!
that being said, i'd prefer the longer gearing for more relaxed highway cruising. and, our dodge only gets about 12 mpg towing at 65-70.
if i were you, i'd be interested in it, but i'd surely "low-ball" the guy. make him a low low offer; he may not be able to sell it with those miles, and he may come back to you in a month and agree to a low price!
good luck with it!
todd
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