I am considering using some of the Moroso block filler for my engine build and wondering what experiences others have had with it.

I am only going to fill the very top of the cylinders, about 1/2 inch worth of filler about 1/4 inch down the bore. I am also going to trace out the head gasket and drill holes through the filler to match the coolant passages.

I searched around a bit and found one super old thread in which the user had good things to say about it. There are a few people on HMT that have done this as well.

I just want to hear any Honda-Tech members' opinions and experiences.

Who has used it or seen it used? Were there any cooling problems or other problems associated with it?

Thanks!

 

No personal experience with it... but I can say that the GE blockguard has been working fine for me. Had it installed, then a hone done and then block assembly. It is not welded in, its a friction fit just a hair under the block deck height... and i've been driving it in 90+ degree temps and traffic without issue.

I know its not what you were investigating... but i figured it is similar in function and couldn't hurt.

 

hmm, never heard of this before... is it from the same makers of JB weld?

sounds a bit scary to me, and probably has reasons for not being a popular method...

bump for real info!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbosi03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmm, never heard of this before... is it from the same makers of JB weld?

sounds a bit scary to me, and probably has reasons for not being a popular method...

bump for real info!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think it's similar to JB Weld, but has heat and expansion characteristics that are similar to engine blocks. And it's made by Moroso, not JB! LoL...

I am looking for reasons why this isn't a popular method. It's far cheaper than a block guard and theoretically would work even better.

 

It is a special type of cement. Works just fine, but only for drag racing purposes. Domestic guys often use it in their trailer queen drag cars instead of paying for expensive Dart blocks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beepy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is a special type of cement. Works just fine, but only for drag racing purposes. Domestic guys often use it in their trailer queen drag cars instead of paying for expensive Dart blocks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm going to use it in my daily driver... but I'm not going to fill it completely and I'm drilling holes through it to allow coolant to pass through.

I wonder why more people don't use it?

 

Hmm... anyone else?

 

I dont think you need it really.Block filler was used mostly for old racing V8 motors that had poor sand castings.Some blocks that were made in mexico had sleeve shifting problems.

 

I bought some yesterday, I'll post up my experience with it...

It will be a while though, it takes 28 days to fully harden, after that I still need to get some machine work done and assemble the engine.

 

FYI, cement is an insulator and drilling holes through it for coolant flow still won't allow your cylinders to cool. There is a reason it says for drag racing purposes only on the bucket it comes in.

But good luck with it anyway. I am anxious to see how catastrophic the failure will be.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beepy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FYI, cement is an insulator and drilling holes through it for coolant flow still won't allow your cylinders to cool. There is a reason it says for drag racing purposes only on the bucket it comes in.

But good luck with it anyway. I am anxious to see how catastrophic the failure will be.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It actually doesn't say "for drag racing purposes only" on the jug. Moroso claims that it works well and reinforces ALL engines when installed properly.

There are a hand full of people on HMT that are running filled engines without any problems.

One guy put down 400+ whp on 33 psi with a filled b16...

I guess no one here really has any hands on experience with this stuff. I have only heard good things from those who actually have used it on their cars.

 

it isnt made to fill the tops of the cylinders it is made to fill the whole waterjacket or just the bottom. The top of the engine needs coolant flow you could stop the filler 2 inches from the top and it would still do the job. The pressure is from sideload and more near the middle of the sleeve. If you fill the top invest in high octane gas because it will be hot up there and no water touching the sleeve up top. Also the sleeves should still move and maybe loosen up the filler. What about erosion of the filler because you drilled through it. Can you get all the shavings out of the water jacket if you do it this way. I doubt it. If you fill do the lower 2/3s only this is where it is usefull. No drilling necessary and the hottest part of the sleeve stays wet and cool.

 

I'll be shocked if your block does not crack from excess heat with no way to cool it. Putting filler in the block does not change the properties of the metal around it. I think you are crazy to use that stuff on the street.

 

Not sure if you fellas have seen this or not but read it for some good info/testing.
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/f...739.0

 

Okay, I think I understand. After reading that post I see that you are not actually filling the block completely like in a drag car, but instead you are constructing what amounts to a thick block guard that doesn't stress the sleeves. Gotcha.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beepy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay, I think I understand. After reading that post I see that you are not actually filling the block completely like in a drag car, but instead you are constructing what amounts to a thick block guard that doesn't stress the sleeves. Gotcha.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly...

When I'm done there will only be about 1/4 to 1/2 inch total of filler, and that will have holes drilled in it matching the ports on the head gasket.

Can someone explain to me why this is worse than running a block guard?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll be shocked if your block does not crack from excess heat with no way to cool it. Putting filler in the block does not change the properties of the metal around it. I think you are crazy to use that stuff on the street. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why will 1/2 inch of filler create more heat than a block guard of the same size? Is it in the materials? Moroso claims it will work with an aluminum block.

Thanks for all of the input so far! I appreciate it!

 

i explained it very well. A block guard isnt ideal but will dissipate the heat because it is metal, block filler is not. It in not a structural material and the flexing of the sleeves combined with your drilling will cause it to fall apart or float in the water jacket. It has to start at the bottom to be secure and work.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When I'm done there will only be about 1/4 to 1/2 inch total of filler, and that will have holes drilled in it matching the ports on the head gasket.

Can someone explain to me why this is worse than running a block guard?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Drilling holes in the material will only weaken the structural integrity of it. It needs to be one solid form to offer any sort of benefit (if any) for supporting the cylinder sleeves from shifting. A blockguard is machined from one piece of metal which can withstand alot more pressure.

BTW, 400-600whp has been done with stock sleeves.

 

i was going to say, i hear a lot of 'good things' about stock sleeves man. With so many variables in a motors success, its pretty rediculous to even state that stuff. Cause i know i've seen 350+whp on stock rings, better yet 450-550whp on stock sleeves. Everyone has.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecmissle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... the flexing of the sleeves combined with your drilling will cause it to fall apart or float in the water jacket. It has to start at the bottom to be secure and work. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you support this with some sort of evidence? Moroso claims that the filler, when fully hardened, is just as hard as the block... and the block doesn't randomly come apart and clog up the water jacket.

I'm looking for some real life evidence here... not just conjecture. I would absolutely love for someone to show me a picture of a partially filled Honda block that failed, or a picture of block filler that chipped off and clogged the water passages.

I hate to be so stubborn but all of the people who I have talked to who have actually used it in their own cars have nothing but good things to say about it and no cooling issues at all.

I also don't understand why a reputable company like Moroso would recomend this product, which harms street engines, with absolutely no warning about using it in drag cars only.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecmissle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...A block guard isnt ideal but will dissipate the heat because it is metal, block filler is not.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Moroso claims that the filler they sell has the same expansion and heat transfer properties as the block. The filler does have metallic properties.

Anyways, I guess I can't be convinced to cancel my block filling plans unless I see some real evidence. I am using it on a d-series block anyways so no real loss if I blow the thing up... I will make sure to make threads of my experience as well as the outcome.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It will be a while though, it takes 28 days to fully harden, after that I still need to get some machine work done and assemble the engine.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

you want to know why more people dont do it?
i would say thats why. takes all of 5 min to tap in a block guard.

 

So people have backed it up and said it worked..

How can they prove it works? They really can't...


Also seems as though they havent done anything out of the ordinary as well to back up the product. Tons of people have made the same power as the "one 400hp" car your refering to with stock sleeves... So why not get a good tuner and forget about the hassle of this stuff?

Just curious

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm looking for some real life evidence here... not just conjecture. I would absolutely love for someone to show me a picture of a partially filled Honda block that failed, or a picture of block filler that chipped off and clogged the water passages.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It'll be hard to find evidence to disprove the product since there are only a handful of people who used it on their Honda motors long enough to make a sustained judgement on it.

Do it and make your own judgement. Others, like us, will stick to conventional means to stabilize our motors. If you have some success, then to you.

 

hes comparing his idea of filling the top to filling the bottom . Two very different ideas and two different outcomes. In the bottom no drilling will need to be done. The filler doesnt have to be washed out of the engine after drilling either because it isnt necessary. If the cylinder expands a little and then cools down (shrinks) it cant fall out. In the top like a block guard it will not work. I would even think this guy would lie before admitting it screwed up his radiator and what not after chuncks start falling. In his mind it has to work so it will.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecmissle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In the top like a block guard it will not work. I would even think this guy would lie before admitting it screwed up his radiator and what not after chuncks start falling. In his mind it has to work so it will.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Again... give me some support rather than just conjecture...

Like I said, the only people I have talked to WHO HAVE ACTUALLY DONE THIS say it works fine... the people I talked to have filled their block like I described and it is working with NO adverse effects. Even after almost a year.

So, give me some support or actual information, facts, experiences, whatever... if it doesn't work I will be the first to admit it.

You say, "In his mind it has to work so it will", well, in your mind it won't work so it won't. LoL... your logic is pretty amazing.