Was is because their car was too fast? Or possibly because their supposed to be stock engine sounded like it had cams? I'm curious to see how often protests are filed in club racing.

 

Not to ask if anyone has protested someone, but who knows of someone being protested in club racing? I have only seen a couple of cars protested in the last couple of years (that I know about).

 

protests.....haven't filed one myself....

in club racing....skill level varies drastically....you can put one guy who is fast into a guy's car who is slow and he can show that the car is fast...

in club racing i think it is more skill than machine.

there are probably those that would cheat to win...

personally i wouldn't cheat to win.

 

I have seen a protest. It was last year against a ITB car. Wont say who.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITAIntegraLS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have seen a protest. It was last year against a ITB car. Wont say who.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Care to elaborate on the situation?

 

There is very little protesting in SCCA club racing, at least in the areas and levels that I have been around. Usually just the threat of it or even verbal discussions have defused most situations I have seen.

I came close enough to making a protest once that I made plans prior to an event, checked with SCCA national offices to see what equipment was going to be on site (a cam tester to be specific), and to walk around all weekend to see when the guy showed up so I could start the process. He never did show up though, it seems they got a "little birdie" phone call probably from SCCA that something was going to happen if they showed up. His head, cam and gearbox were in question. Oddly, I never saw them in ITA again but at the end of the year when the car was sold to SE Div., a truly long list of illegalities were discovered by the buyer.

 

I know who, and he hasn't raced since.

 

Someone I know that knows someone would think it interesting if the top 5 SM cars would get a thorough inspection especially in the head area (motor that is).

Barry H.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Johnny Mac &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know who, and he hasn't raced since. </TD></TR></TABLE>

actually, he has

 

In three years of Spec RX-7, I saw one protest.

Basically, the same car had won three championships in a row, with two drivers. The protest was a group protest - there were rumors that the car was illegal - so the other top-5 drivers pitched in the fees and had the engine lolli-popped (port size and shape are similar to cam profile and timing) and a few other things checked.

As expected, the car was legal. The drivers were just plain fast and the car was extremely well prepped.

The Spec RX-7 group also does random sport-checking of cars in the paddock. Several illegal cars have been found that way - sometimes the driver was cheating, but usually it was a new driver who didn't read the rulebook well enough.

 

If you look in the back section of Sports Car magazine, they have rulings over protests, DQ's, etc. There was one that that was funny, a spec miata guy had a ballast in a illegal location. Instead of putting a ballast in the passenger area, he was using a 50 lb plate for his battery disconnect plate near the rear of his car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by apexinghonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Someone I know that knows someone would think it interesting if the top 5 SM cars would get a thorough inspection especially in the head area (motor that is).

Barry H. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Please be careful saying **** like this. I'll bet there is a guy in the top five in SM that does have a legal head.

This should be a gentlemens sport (not sexiest, but ethics). If you think someone is illegal, talk to them or protest. If you catch them, make sure he gets in trouble and/or you can talk all you want. If you can't find anything, or you aren't willing to look, keep your mouth closed.

 

Was using that plate illegal? After all, you do need a platform on which to install your disconnect. You see, the rulebook doesnt mention what some item should weigh that does a particular job. I, for example, could use tungsten bolts to hold my exhaust on (presuming, of course, thats where I wanted my ballast...err..I mean weight). So titanium and aluminum fasteners in the front of the car and tungsten toward the rear. I will have succeeded in moving the c.g. about .05 percent back by doing that for beaucoup bucks $$$$.

 

For most rules, they state that any specified component cannot perform any other function. Some parts of the rule book do not state that, and it's things like that which separate the "creative" racers from the others. There are all sorts of creative ways to make line locks, or adversely affect other cars, all "legally".

 

The use of the 50 lb plate was appeal by the DQ'd owner and lost. IIRC, there was no specific rule saying you can't use a heavy switch plate, but based on the rule that ballast are to be in the passeger seat area, and another rule saying something like "no rules shall be distorted orsomethingorother", the plate was considered a ballast and a plate. Since it was deemed a ballast and it wasn't in the right location, the racer was DQ'd.

 

I filed one against a consistent winner in ITC about 10 years ago. Protested front brake components, cylinder head mods and cam profile. He got busted on the brakes and head, but the cam was legal. Car got real slow after the illegal items were corrected .

Walt, remember the parties involved?

 

I sure do. It was what needed to be done. I consider that guy a friend, but he got what he deserved, and thats the way it should be. As I remember, the reason for the suspision, was he got fast to quick.

 

I remember a few years back at the local circle track,
there a team who had been protested 3 or 4 weeks in a row for various things. Some were mechanically invasive, and others were not. However, his car was legal, but in my opinion the harassment was unsportmenlike. He (with the help of his sponsor) , put envelopes on a string with various car numbers and protest money inside. There was one envelope with a "??" instead of a car number.

The protests stopped.

 

Personally, I'm not protesting someone unless I'm SURE they are illegal. No gray areas, no "maybes" and no BS protests about things like brackets and washer bottles.

There are some guys I wonder about... REALLY fast at places with long straights (Roebling) and never go to the ARRC. Or really fast all year and then slow at the ARRC. Hmmmm...
But I'm not SURE.
Maybe they are just really good at Roebling?
Maybe they simply dislike Road Atlanta?

But if I'm SURE you're cheating, I will protest without hesitating.
Amatuer racing is self policing. You have to be willing to self police.

Scott, who "cheated" at the ARRC last year by driving over his head for 20 laps and getting away with it

 

Ok. So, according to the NASA CCR, a roll cage should be designed with the intent of the rules in mind. Does this effectively rule out building a cage where the main hoop/diagonal/rear braces are mild steel, but the door/a-pillar/dash/halo bars are chromoly?

In the same spirit, can you have the bars forward of the main hoop made of the minimum spec tubing, while using larger, thicker-walled tubing for the rear?

can you build a cage of materials other than chromoly and mild steel?

In the next couple of months I'm looking to put a 6-point in my car, that may eventually become a comptetion vehicle, so I want to make sure anything I do now will be legal later...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by artifex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... so I want to make sure anything I do now will be legal later...</TD></TR></TABLE>

...then don't do anything fancy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I filed one against a consistent winner in ITC about 10 years ago. Protested front brake components, cylinder head mods and cam profile. He got busted on the brakes and head, but the cam was legal. Car got real slow after the illegal items were corrected .

Walt, remember the parties involved?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Would this have been a certain blue and white "Chrysler" product?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by o-man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Would this have been a certain blue and white "Chrysler" product?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup. To his credit, he was a good guy and drove the car well...but when a Dodge Colt keeps whippin' VWs and Hondas somethin' is up!

 

I wouldn't protest anyone over stupid stuff.. Like if 2 motors have identical internals, and I know it, but the engine code is 1 number off..

If you have a turbo on your honda in H1 though, then you might see one from me, but only if you beat me by like 1 second..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by artifex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok. So, according to the NASA CCR, a roll cage should be designed with the intent of the rules in mind. Does this effectively rule out building a cage where the main hoop/diagonal/rear braces are mild steel, but the door/a-pillar/dash/halo bars are chromoly?

In the same spirit, can you have the bars forward of the main hoop made of the minimum spec tubing, while using larger, thicker-walled tubing for the rear?

can you build a cage of materials other than chromoly and mild steel?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't get it.

Rulebooks specify the type of metals allowable, and the thickness, and what you can/can't do.

From the nasa CCR:
"Parts of the cage deemed by the Chief Scrutineer, to serve no practical
purpose other than chassis stiffening may be considered in violation of the intent of
these rules"

"<U>2201 - 3000 lbs</U>.
1.500” x 0.120” DOM/Alloy/Seamless
1.750” x 0.095” DOM/Alloy/Seamless
(No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages being certified after April 30th, 2003)"