Ok finally I have my little hatch preped for track day..Time: 1"09'899, anyways, time doesnt matter, as i was expecting I can hit 1"07... when i start to blame the Buddy Club Racing Spec suspension being un-stable in certain corners, expecially S turns.

Spring: 7K at the rear 11K front.
Tyres: R Hard compound Bridgestone RE55S 195/55/15 (Good stuff, lower temp even better than A048, i can garentee in my 3 years track exp. and 5 yrs street race, hmm.. lets forget the street days guys)

in those certain corners my tyres are griping like railway but my suspension seems to fail me when i push further...very unstable...kinda **** to be honest.. damper been set to hardest still wont help..

now im thinking a few options:

1. getting stiffer springs. but then i also worry the damper might fail in shorter period of time. they're 1 year old only.
2. For cost effectively..I really wonder if those GC/Koni revalve are good enough.

and 3. got a deal of Zeal Super function but thats still quite a lot of $.

any track junky can help me with this issue? thanks.

Laz.

 

It would be impossible to speculate what is wrong with your suspension if you don't describe what it's doing. Push hard - then what?

 

from what he's talking about i think he means push harder through the turns...

have you tried koni/gc revalved to your desired spring rates???i'm not a track junkie but i just want to give you some opinions...

 

Well, the rear ,ts very unstable during hard corners. Im sure all suspensions are but this one i cant feel where its going. especially when there is nothing close to the tyres limit. im like handing my *** to nowhere.

The suspension seems want to bounce is the problem, giving me not much of confidence to go further. Its hard to explain. im understeering heavy at the front too, when rear having this syndrom. I dont know, when i drove my friends car with similar setup but with Ohlins PCV theres nothing like this. of course friends suspension cost double then the Buddy Clubs..

 

If you look at the shock dyno's for the BC's you'll never want to run them full stiff, especially on those soft spring rates. I've got the BC's on my ITR and tested them. Anything over 7 clicks front or rear resulted in sub-optimal characteristics. Push (in front), snappiness (in rear). You might be able to go slightly higher with R compounds, but not by much. I'd seriously consider changing your shock settings and see how that affects handling. Just my $.02

 

i concur. it's good to be stiff, but if you're so stiff the suspension just can't do it's job then that end of the car it going to become erratic. it is important to match the dampening to the spring rate. when in doubt, go softer. remember softer is safer. as for your tires (tyres) you will probably not see their true limits while on the suspension set-up you have. in other words your suspension is rolling over before your tire can. quick fix would be camber adjust ment and a stiffer ARB, especially in the rear. keep in mind with both of these "solutions" you'll be sacificing one or two other qualities of the car.

 

well actually i have tried 5 clicks down from full stiff.. its about the same.. or a little worse.. lap time dropped 0.2-0.7 sec...

sigh..might as well look for new shocks..anyone got a cost effective solution?

 

Buddy Club = Made in Taiwan, first mistake

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ’R’isfor’TypeR’ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Buddy Club = Made in Taiwan, first mistake </TD></TR></TABLE>

Let say I didnt know the newer Buddy Club are all made in Taiwan by AAI, didnt get that info at the time i purchase. But i have seen quite a lot of people using BC back in the days in Canada and been told they are quite good.

I would have go for Zeal B6 for slightly more..

 

If you are happy with the ohlins setup I would honestly just save your money, sell the old setup and get the ohlins. For a street car I wouldn't tell someone to spend the money on ohlins but since it is a track car I don't see any reason not to go with what you are comfortable with.

 

If you have the money, find some stiffer springs. Swaybars will also help your car rotate and encourage stability through high-speed-high G corners. You
The fact that your running such a soft spring in the front and a more aggressive spring in the rear is causing your car to have so much over-steer. All of the weight is transferring the front of your car.

I, for example, run 10.2k (571 lb) w/ a 22mm swaybar in the front....&....8k (450 lb) w/ a 23mm swaybar in the rear. The car rotates wonderfully in all situations and is stable. Soon, I will increase the front to 12k or so and the rear to 10k, respectably. Dampers are Zeal S6's.

Also, not sure how much many of you believe in this product but I will be installing the J's roll center adjuster.

 

Thanks for replies,

Im actually thinking of getting the SWIFT springs rating 16 fr and 12 rear to see if there are improvement. and yes its a track car. goes stiffer springs doesnt matter as I wont drive this car often on street.

Current setup as followed:

98 DC2R 5 lug conversion
EK9 26mm front sway bar
SRR rear sway/tie bar combo
Rigid 3 point front tower strut
Summit rear tower strut / trunk bar combo.
Carbing front lower tie bar
5Zigen FN01RC 5x114.3 15" Rims
Bridgestone RE55S Type SR 195/55/15 R tyres.
Endless CC-X Cremic

But then Im concerning will stiffer springs affect dampers life?

thanks, Laz.

 

Your dampers were likely not designed to withstand such high spring rates, and would hurt performance if anything.

 

So it sounds to me like you have 15 way adjustable shocks and you've tried two settings (full stiff and 5 clicks from full stiff) and come to the conclusion the shocks are not good enough?!? Call me crazy, but you need to do a little more testing....there's no way the shocks can't handle those spring rates!

 

Agreed..They should be able to handle those spring rates no problem. I have Buddy Club Racing Spec Dampers and there is never a point on the track where I feel less confident because of them. It's actually the other way around they handle beautifully.

I did get mine custom valved and am running 10k front and 12k rear with a 22mm rear sway bar.

 

:EDIT: From my last post, reading owned me; The spring rates you have are not indicitive of a Honda FF. Usually, youll want to to have spring rates closer together like the swift springs you've chosen and run a larger rear swaybar.

One thing is that Huge front sway bar will cause your car to push. Unless you have an equal or greater sized bar for the rear that alone will cause your car to push like a Cadilac Eldorado in corners.

If your concerned about body roll, consider the J's Roll center adjuster or make sure that you have a rear swaybar that is equal to or larger then the front.

Choosing Swift springs is a great choice. My dampeners originally came with Swift springs and one thing that I noticed was that the ride was awesome even though they were such a high spring rate (14k and 10k) They felt more like the rates I have, currently. My suggestion is that due to the design of the Swift spring, 16k (900~ lb) and 14k (800~ lb) would feel more like a spring with 50~ lbs of compression per square inch less. What Im saying is that with Swift springs compared to say an Eibach ERS, a Swift spring around 16k will feel like a Eibach 15k spring. THus, I would increase the spring rate of the swift spring accordingly. If you want 16k get a 17k (950 lb), if you want a 14k get a 15k (850 lb).

And Buddy Clubs can handle those rates no problem. Longentivity will suffer but I have mine rebuilt every year, so, I suggest you do the same


Modified by Rice-Boy at 12:03 AM 6/24/2005

 

well i have tried 4 spring rates..
full stiff, full soft, 5 click down and 3 click down...thats why im assuming shock is not enough..

so shall I get the SWIFTs? whats the ID of the buddyclubs anyways? 65?

 

60 if you have any questions give Aj Racing an email at tech@aj-racing.com

 

don't know ur exact setup, but i'm running the same tires in 14/50/185 spec with buddy club rs F10k R7k--haven't tracked yet, but i also feel the push when accelerating thru corners. i'm even set stiffer in the rear i guess i need to play around with them a bit more--not giving up on them yet.

FYI--i picked mine up from the distributor out here in so cal and asked them if buddy clubs are still made in japan. the guy said, yes. i also just emailed aj-racing.

 

Reading owns you guys kinda...

If the rear is stiffened with stiffer springs and/or egual to or larger rear swaybar then the front then your car will handle with less understeer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rice-Boy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Reading owns you guys kinda...

If the rear is stiffened with stiffer springs and/or egual to or larger rear swaybar then the front then your car will handle with less understeer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

huh?

 

well, let see how much are the springs.19000yen for a pair..think i can live with that..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rice-Boy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

One thing is that Huge rear sway bar will cause your car to push. Unless you have an equal or greater sized bar for the rear that alone will cause your car to push like a Cadilac Eldorado in corners.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

did you mean a huge front swaybar will cause your car to push?

 

LOL...yes, I did mean the front. Typing ownz me

 

SWIFT Springs = I'm using them on my Zeal B6