Dont start flaming me either. I did search.

Ok, I dont want to get too technical, just want to know what to do. I just got a set of ksport coilovers and LCA's (how much do they help?)from Andy @ BodykitsNW. I havent put them on yet but Im sure that they will make my car handle better than the Tien springs/stock shocks that were on my ride.
Im 90.865% clueless when it comes to suspension on cars so I make no excuse for my ignorance. Simply put, I want to know what to buy for my car to make it handle better. Im not gonna be touring @ Laguna Seca or anything but I am a very aggressive driver. The reason why I dont feel too bad asking about this is because of my weight situation(no Im not fat). Ive got about 200lbs worth of stereo in my hatch (NO, ITS NOT COMING OUT) so I dont know if just buying a sway bar will fix my problem. I dont want to waste too much of your time but I would greatly appreciate some advice. I dont mind doing my own research, in fact I would rather learn for myself. Im totally intrigued by my newly found hobby. I just need someone to point me in the right direction.
Thanks in advance

 

I think you should install your new suspension hardware and see if you like the handling. If you do then there is no need to buy more stuff (if you have extra money for stuff you don't need then IM me and I will be glad to take it off your hands

As you said, you are not going to be racing the car so you do not want the best handling suspension out there (because the best handling suspension has an incredibly rough ride). All suspension designs for the street are a compromise. The compromise is between cost, handling, durability, ride and noise.

If you want a car that hurts your kidneys on every bump and squeaks and groans when pulling into your driveway and bottoms out on even small potholes and needs to be rebuilt every year and costs more than a CRX then there are plenty of racing suspensions out there and plenty of people who will sell them to you.

If you want a car that rides well, handles fairly well, doesn't require any extra maintainence and soesn't cost 2 month's pay then get a complete street system from a reliable manufacturer (Tokico, Koni, Ground Control, Progress, Tein) that sounds like a good match for you driving needs.

 

very well put.....thankyou. The reason why Im concerned with vtis is bc I used to have a 95 coupe that handled great except for the understeer(i think its understeer,....when you take a curve and as soon as you increase the throttle, the car wants to spinout towards the apex of the curve). I dont want to have that problem again. Ive been reading up a lot on here and it seems like all the road racing/autocross guys are running an extra beefy rear sway bar. Is that the one on bottom, or top? I hope its on bottom bc my sub box is in the way of putting one up top. Does the sway bar make your ride extra harsh? Doesnt seem like (logically) it would.

 

what do your bushings look like?.. doing suspension upgrades with worn bushings doesnt help as much as it should.. if there bad enuf new bushings might do more good than putting coilovers with bad bushings

 

A rear sway bar is the one on the bottom. A rear sway bar adds spring rate when the car leans (like in a turn)

It basically connects the left side tire to the right side. When the left side goes up into the body (when you are turning right) a sway bar pushes up on the right side tire also. But since the right side tire has a spring of its own pushing down its the equivalent of having a part of the right side spring acting on the left side. Of course the same thing happens in reverse when you turn the other way.

By increasing the spring rate at the rear of the car and leaving the front spring rate the same the car has more of a tendency to lose grip at the rear before the front than it did before. This makes most street cars more neutral in handling but can lead more easily to oversteer (thats when the car turns more than the wheel is turned) Oversteer in the extreme leads to spins.

Adding a rear sway bar will make your car ride rougher when you hit bumps with one rear wheel but not the other. If you hit a bump exactly at the same time with right and left rear wheels then a rear sway bar will not effect the ride.

All street cars are set up from the factory to understeer. Understeer is when you turn the wheel more but the car doesn't turn more. Basically the front tires lose grip before the rear tires. The car tends to go straight when you have a lot of understeer. Most performance drivers consider this slow but it is safer than a car that oversteers.

You can experience understeer pretty easily. In a big empty parking lot in 1st gear get going about 15mph and start gently turning the wheel turning sharper until the tires just start to squeal. Go one full revolution around the circle without turning the wheel or changing your position on the gas pedal. Now, add more gas aggressivley without moving the wheel. What happened? The circle got bigger as the car started to understeer. The car did not go where you pointed it. DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK - YOU MAY GET ARRESTED. YOU MAY DAMAGE YOUR CAR. YOU MAY HIT SOMETHING.

You can experience oversteer pretty easily as well. In a big empty parking lot in 1st gear get going about 15mph and start gently turning the wheel turning sharper until the tires just start to squeal. Go one complete revolution around the circle. Now, without turning the wheel suddenly lift off the gas completely. What happened? The car started to turn more sharply perhaps to the point where the rear end skidded a little to the outside of the turn. DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK - YOU MAY GET ARRESTED. YOU MAY DAMAGE YOUR CAR. YOU MAY HIT SOMETHING.

I recommend that you do not try either of these two techniques inpublic. Rather go to a performance driving school or an autocross school.

 

Well then, are you saying that you'd need to get a front sway as well to provide the equilibrium? On another note, if I chose to get a front and rear strut bar would I experince more stability, I currently have KONI Yellows with GC coilovers on an 01 accord coupe. I've heard that the only noticeable difference with a front strut is that the wheel has more of a stiffer feel and it seems more stable....just things i've heard, someone can correct me if I'm wrong...actually please do

 

Let me clear one thing up, sway bars and strut bars are two different things. Sway bars are connected from one front/rear lower control arm to the other front/rear lower control arm from left to right (not front to rear), and strut bars are just braces that bolt to the tops of the strut towers on the cars frame either under the hood or in the trunk/hatch. The way they work is different too, as said before the sway bars increase spring rate while cornering, the strut bars only increase rigidity and reduce the flexing of the chassis. Aslo as mentioned above sway bars are mainly to adjust understeer/oversteer.

I know that you said that you drive agressively on the street and do not road race or autocross the car, so if you are pushing the car hard enough on the street to feel the car understeer you are dirving recklessly and unsafely. I work with a guy who was in the car with a friend when the friend hit a house because the pushed his car too hard and understeered, he didn't know how his car would handle. This is why people like me recommend that you take an autocross school or just do an autocross to get a true feeling for your car first, then adjust. I just went to an upgraded suspension myself, on the road the stock suspension was great, but when i got to an autocross and I pushed my car to the limit of traction that is when i felt the understeer and the need to change things. Anyway, enough of my ranting, start with a decent spring/strut combo, then go on later to add things like sway bars. Any racer will tell you, one thing at a time.

 

All sounds like good advice, Ill take it. Im putting these coilovers on tomorrow night. Oh, I dont want anyone to think that Im a crazy driver or anything either. The reason why I say I drive very aggressively is bc me and a few buddies of mine have been going out to this one old road about 10 min out in the middle of nowhere. There are probably 20 curves in about 3 miles. We will have one person at each end of our starting/stopping points and 3 walkie talkies. The two "spotmen" will watch out for oncoming traffic while the third times himself through the "course". There are no adjascent roads that connect in these 2-3miles so there is NO risk of someone pulling out in front of you. No trees, a couple of signs (one less thanks to Sean), and NO COPS. Since there isnt a roadracing or autocross track within 150 miles of here, its the closest thing weve got. It started out as a bunch of guys on crotch rockets hanging out on the weekends but now there are a few compacts that go out there. So thats why I want great suspension.

Thanks again for all the usefull info. One more question though. Ive heard people takl about different sway bar sizes. What difference does the size make??? Im sure it has something to do with the rigidity of the metal or something,.....Im just wondering what "size" to get if I do get one. And when/if I do. How will I know whether to go up/down a "size". Does a bigger one mean it causes more understeer or vice versa?

 

Glad to hear that you are not being an idiot on the roads, there are too many people like that already.

About sway bar sizes, larger is stiffer, obviously. But what you really want to consider is the difference in size between front and rear. As stated before, larger rear bar will stiffen up the rear end, and in turn will cause the rear end to loose traction before the front. I won't go into details about this unless you ask, because there is a lot to explain. Just remember stiffer front end = tendency to understeer, stiffer rear end = tendency to oversteer. "Stiffer" can be reached by springs with higher spring rates, changing sway bars, increasing damping force (struts), etc. And if your car does not have a rear sway bar stock (like mine) you will need a few extra parts. Let me know if you are going to get one, there are more things you need to know before buying, such as subframe tearout problems.

To give an example this is my set up:

Koni Sport (yellow) Dampers
Ground Control Coilovers with 400F/450R spring rates
USDM ITR Rear Sway Bar (22mm)
205/50/r15 Falken Azenis Sport RT-615 Tires
Password JDM 3 Point Front Upper Strut Tower Bar

I went from a car (stock) that had a ton of understeer (front wheel drive cars have even more tendency to understeer) to a car that is pretty much nuetral (new suspension). I run a higher spring rate in the rear and a larger sway bar in the rear than is normal. Even an off the shelf (prokit, s tech, etc) or non custom springs have much lower spring rates (like stock) in the rear, and that is to simply keep things safe for the average driver. Lastly (man I have long posts), the reason I listed tires is because the most effective and often overlooked mod is a good set of tires. Tires will help launch/acceleration, braking, cornering, and every other bit of feedback between the road and the car. So also look into a good set of tires. I have two sets of rims with tires, one for winter (stock) and one for summer, because azenis in the snow is a very bad idea.

 

ok,.... as far as the sway bar goes, it sounds like something Im gonna want to do. I'll let you know after I get the new coilovers on as to if I want to go ahead for the sway bar.

Tires,...I tried to get some Azenis but the place that I ordered from didnt have any. They sold me another brand (i wish I could remember the brand) that they said was just as good (traction wise) as Azenis. I dont know how true that is but they feel super sticky.

Ill keep u updated on the sway bar situation.

Thanks again, youve been a real help. If you ever need any audio advice, help, or even products, let me know, I should be able to help.

 

hey, i just wanted to say right on to you guys that answered his questions, it's so refreshing to see rather than "search noob" and crap like that. awesome.

one thing I'd like to contribute is if you do end up getting a sway bar, it is recommended that you get a brace for it. the ASR brace kit with ITR sway is highly regarded around here. It helps reinforce your subframe, especially if your car doesn't have a stock sway.

 

thanks for all this great info, reading all this helped me pick out my new suspension set up that i am hoping on starting this winter. i want my suspension to be set up for street coarse racing. thanks for the great info.

 

I used the Beaks SRK (subframe reinforcement kit), great quality and fit IMO. Go to the beaks website and get the EG quick swap kit, it will have almost everything you need. Then find some DC2 integra or EG 4 door EX rear lower control arms, this is because they have the threaded hole for the sway bar linkage (due to the fact that these cars had a stock rear sway bar). FYI you cannot drill this hole on the stock LCA, you have to get one from a different car or get an aftermarket LCA like Omni Power's. The Beaks kits use the USDM Integra Type R rear sway bar which is 22mm. Most aftermarket bars are less than this and the JDM Type R bar is larger at 23mm. And the reason it is important to get some kind of reinforcement kit is to prevent your subframe from tearing out. These kits increase the surface area of contact for the mount and also provide a straight line of attachment as opposed to the offset bracket used in stock applications. The reason this is not an issue on the stock cars is because the non type r integras and eg sedan ex's use a 14mm rear sway bar that does not create enough force (it flexes more and does not put as much stress on the mounts) to tear it from the subframe.

 

UPDATE:
I just got both the front coilovers on (finally). I stillhave to adjust the height on them a little higher. I havent put the rears on yet bc Im waitin on some Ksport LCA's. I hope they help the body sway bc I "tried it out" on the way home tonight and the backend of the car takes 2 years to catch up with the front. If the rears and LCA's dont do something impressive to that problem,... Im gonna HAVE to get a sway bar.

I'll keep you guys updated and like everyone said,.....THIS is how it is supposed to be on this site.
TTTTTHHHHHAAAAANNNNNKKKKKYYYYYOOOOOUUUUU!!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allanonjj &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">very well put.....thankyou. The reason why Im concerned with vtis is bc I used to have a 95 coupe that handled great except for the understeer(i think its understeer,....when you take a curve and as soon as you increase the throttle, the car wants to spinout towards the apex of the curve). I dont want to have that problem again. Ive been reading up a lot on here and it seems like all the road racing/autocross guys are running an extra beefy rear sway bar. Is that the one on bottom, or top? I hope its on bottom bc my sub box is in the way of putting one up top. Does the sway bar make your ride extra harsh? Doesnt seem like (logically) it would.</TD></TR></TABLE>

An LSD (and/or not hitting the gas too early) will help with throttle understeer. So will learning how to driver better

 

Im not going to start a war on THIS thread!! Its been an exception to the norm (no flaming) compared to most. I DO ask however that you only post positive, informative info on the topic.

Thanks everyone,
JJ

 

One thing to keep in mind since you have coilovers is camber. I assume that you have no camber kit (don't worry I don't either), so don't slam that car otherwise you will increase the negative camber to the point that you will wear the inside of your tires much worse than the outsides. What I do is keep the drop moderate (just a little bit of fender gap), and then when I get to my autocross I drop it about another 1-2 inches, this adds the negative camber that I wanted to avoid on the street, but is advantagous for racing when it comes to cornering. I keep the back about nuetral camber, good for street and it helps the rear end stay just a little looser than the front (more to help with getting it to oversteer)

Here are a few pictures, it is hard to tell that I have the front lowered more for autocross, but it is apparent if you were standing next to my car.

Current street setting


Me autocrossing with stock suspension


With new suspension

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allanonjj &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im not going to start a war on THIS thread!! Its been an exception to the norm (no flaming) compared to most. I DO ask however that you only post positive, informative info on the topic.

Thanks everyone,
JJ</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uh ok, I guess I meant to say "Get the biggest JDm rear sway and you can get on the gas too early and not spin the front wheels, thus your throttle understeering issue will be solved" whatever you want to hear.

 

Ok, I finally got the rears on yesterday and was able to try out the new suspension @ a local (small) airport. WOW!!!! Its amazing what adding a decent set of suspension wil do for your handling!! However, I still have some issues. Mainly, the tires seem to be rolling under. I ckecked the pressure in the rear tires (where i was having the tire issue) and it was @ 40 lbs. Is that about right or do I need to asdd more? I keep forgetting to look @ the brand of tires I got. Like I said in a previous post, I wanted Azenis but the place was out. The salesguy told me that these tires were the closest thing that I could get to Azenis. Im not sure if I beleive him now though. Well, other than the tire roll, I got the rear stiffnes almost in check. With a little more tuning on them, I feel like I can have them just right. I am very curious though, what about ride height?? Since I am driving this car every day, I cant have it slammed. Right now Ive got 22 1/4 inches between the ground and my fenders. Thats too low. Im gonna rase in up about 3/4 of an inch tonight. Im also wonderin how much that is gonna affect my handling. How high is your ride?? (ground to fender, directly above tire). Last but CERTAINLY not least, I was having some pretty bad understeer even after I stiffened up the rear. Does the front need to be stiffer too?? Ive got the front set to the softest setting for everyday use but if I need to turn up the stiffness, I can.

All of your input has been dually noted, I hope to pick your brains some more though!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allanonjj &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, I finally got the rears on yesterday and was able to try out the new suspension @ a local (small) airport. WOW!!!! Its amazing what adding a decent set of suspension wil do for your handling!! However, I still have some issues. Mainly, the tires seem to be rolling under. I ckecked the pressure in the rear tires (where i was having the tire issue) and it was @ 40 lbs. Is that about right or do I need to asdd more? I keep forgetting to look @ the brand of tires I got. Like I said in a previous post, I wanted Azenis but the place was out. The salesguy told me that these tires were the closest thing that I could get to Azenis. Im not sure if I beleive him now though. Well, other than the tire roll, I got the rear stiffnes almost in check. With a little more tuning on them, I feel like I can have them just right. I am very curious though, what about ride height?? Since I am driving this car every day, I cant have it slammed. Right now Ive got 22 1/4 inches between the ground and my fenders. Thats too low. Im gonna rase in up about 3/4 of an inch tonight. Im also wonderin how much that is gonna affect my handling. How high is your ride?? (ground to fender, directly above tire). Last but CERTAINLY not least, I was having some pretty bad understeer even after I stiffened up the rear. Does the front need to be stiffer too?? Ive got the front set to the softest setting for everyday use but if I need to turn up the stiffness, I can.

All of your input has been dually noted, I hope to pick your brains some more though!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

try higher pressures in the rear, maybe lower in the front.

If you want to get rid of understeer you can go softer up front of stiffer in back. There's a post around here somewhere that lists changes that can be made to decrease understeer. Off the top of my head here are some:

Reduce Understeer:
Higher shock setting in the rear, and/or lower up front
higher spring rate in rear, and/or lower front
Less negative camber in rear, and/or more negative camber in front
higher rear sway bar rate, and/or lower front sway bar rate
Higher rear tire pressure, and/or lower front tire pressure.

This all depends on where you're getting understeer as well. Are you understeering on turn in, mid corner, or corner exit?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

try higher pressures in the rear, maybe lower in the front.

If you want to get rid of understeer you can go softer up front of stiffer in back. There's a post around here somewhere that lists changes that can be made to decrease understeer. Off the top of my head here are some:

Reduce Understeer:
Higher shock setting in the rear, and/or lower up front
higher spring rate in rear, and/or lower front
Less negative camber in rear, and/or more negative camber in front
higher rear sway bar rate, and/or lower front sway bar rate
Higher rear tire pressure, and/or lower front tire pressure.

This all depends on where you're getting understeer as well. Are you understeering on turn in, mid corner, or corner exit? </TD></TR></TABLE>

About mid-corner,...yeah right @ the apex. Whered you get your sway bars? How much am I going to be spending?

 

Are there any reinforcement kits out there for 6th gen accords?

 

Ok, I took the car down that road I was tellin you about the other day and besides killin my brakes,.....oh yeah,.....D E A D!! But anyways,..... I went ahead and tightened down on the rear coilovers but I noticed that the left rear was a lot harder/stiffer to turn than the right rear. Is that normal??? I cant say that I noticed the car leaning more towards one side but I also only got two passes. Im concerned about the afformentioned (&lt;--skool wurd, he he) strut stiffness. Has anybody else noticed this problem?

Also, these ksports are adjustable @ the bottom(so you dont lose ride height I guess). Im not sure how to raise the srping rate back there,..... do I shorten the struts "stroke" or lengthen it? Im assuming that by raising or lowering the top portion of the coilover that it will stiffen up the spring......like I said ,......I T H I N K
Cmon suspension GURUs .

 

b u m p

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allanonjj &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I went ahead and tightened down on the rear coilovers but I noticed that the left rear was a lot harder/stiffer to turn than the right rear. Is that normal??? I cant say that I noticed the car leaning more towards one side but I also only got two passes. Im concerned about the afformentioned (&lt;--skool wurd, he he) strut stiffness. Has anybody else noticed this problem?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not sure I'm following you when you say that you tightened down on the rear coilover. Are you referring to preloading?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allanonjj &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, these ksports are adjustable @ the bottom(so you dont lose ride height I guess). Im not sure how to raise the srping rate back there,..... do I shorten the struts "stroke" or lengthen it? Im assuming that by raising or lowering the top portion of the coilover that it will stiffen up the spring......like I said ,......I T H I N K
Cmon suspension GURUs .</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can't change a springs rate. It is what it is.