Hope I'm posting this in the right forum....

I spun a rod bearing in my 12.5 CR b17/ITR last summer, and after removing the cams, found my rocker arms doing strange things.





As far as I know, all three arms are supposed to be "synchronized" like the two toward the left are (the third moves completely free from the other two). Each set of rocker arms are like this too....

Am I wrong? Any info would be appreciated.

 

Can you not simply push them back into place?

 

Sorry.... Yeah, I can push them back into place. They move and all.

I just positioned them that way to show the two that are together vs. the one that is not. The one that's positioned down moves completely freely of the other two. My question is, is this normal?

 

bump for tim

 

Theyre independant of each other unless VTEC is engaged.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tim_adams85 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry.... Yeah, I can push them back into place. They move and all.

I just positioned them that way to show the two that are together vs. the one that is not. The one that's positioned down moves completely freely of the other two. My question is, is this normal?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dude. You must not work on these engines a whole lot. That is 100% completely normal.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Dude. You must not work on these engines a whole lot. That is 100% completely normal.</TD></TR></TABLE>dude, I think youre wrong.
YOU must not understand the complexity of his question.

can you move the two rocker arms all the way up on your head and keep the third completely down on the valve?

Ive looked at a few other heads and Tims is the only one that has this capability.

I believe there are some tiny pins that are missing on the middle arm that would somewhat lock the third arm into traveling with the second arm, within a few degrees of separation but still maintaing the complete set of three to move like a wave without the cam in place and without the vtec pistons activated.

take that

 

Early rockers did not have the pins you are talking about, that looks normal.

 

that head is an ITR head bought fresh from Acura, in parts and assembled, so I am curious if leaving out those pins would lead to the clacking noise Tim hears at idle... I dunno if they are clacking around without vtec engaged.

the noise is scary... but there is no wear or damage anywhere on the head or shortblock.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tim_adams85 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry.... Yeah, I can push them back into place. They move and all.

I just positioned them that way to show the two that are together vs. the one that is not. The one that's positioned down moves completely freely of the other two. My question is, is this normal?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No. Listen. As you look at the head, on the car... vtec sol to the left... The rocker on the LEFT side will remain completely independent of the two to the right (intake side). You can move the two on the right completely up off the valves with the left still in contact with the top of the valve. Its normal.

This would not cause the "claking" noise the other posts reffers to. That is controlled by the lost motion assembly. Perhaps yours are sticking?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by owen_the_soyboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dude, I think youre wrong.
YOU must not understand the complexity of his question.

can you move the two rocker arms all the way up on your head and keep the third completely down on the valve?

Ive looked at a few other heads and Tims is the only one that has this capability.

I believe there are some tiny pins that are missing on the middle arm that would somewhat lock the third arm into traveling with the second arm, within a few degrees of separation but still maintaing the complete set of three to move like a wave without the cam in place and without the vtec pistons activated.

take that
</TD></TR></TABLE>

See the above post. I believe I understand a little more then you care to acknowledge. I have three heads out in my garage right now for motors I am building. They ALL have this ability, same as the one sitting in my car also. It runs fine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Early rockers did not have the pins you are talking about, that looks normal.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i have a 89 b16a and it has those pins, they all stay together within a 3/4"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boosted Chemist &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i have a 89 b16a and it has those pins, they all stay together within a 3/4"</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think people might be slightly confused here.. usually the Vtec pins have enough tension to hold the rockers together, BUT you can push the ones down even further if you apply slight force... Try it. They don't all stay together like this if you use slight force. I am 100% sure.

 

i think alot of people are confused here. we arent talking about the pins that actuate vtec here, we are talking about the smaller diameter points on the rocker arms that keep them together next to each other seen here

Here is the rocker arm assy:, this is the pin i think we need to focus on:

which creates the two primary and mid rocker arms to move together like this:

And also can bind up against the small spring loaded pin that pushes the large vtec pin back into the mid arm's cavity when coming out of vtec here(oil pressure cut off from the vtec solenoid: (also can cause the rocker arms to not completey come back down, just push the pin back in and at the same time push the pri. and mid rocker arms down:



Modified by JH4DC4-2GSR at 8:33 PM 6/22/2005

 

Exactly. You just proved what I have been saying. The pin locks TWO of the rockers together, a primary and a secondary. It DOES NOT lock all three together as people have been saying.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Exactly. You just proved what I have been saying. The pin locks TWO of the rockers together, a primary and a secondary. It DOES NOT lock all three together as people have been saying. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The purpose of this small pin is to keep the primary and secondary lobes as close as possible together and in somewhat more similar syncronization so the vtec pin in the primary rocker arm can lock into the mid rocker arm first then the large pin into the secondary arm, in 1/100 of a second...

 

On the newer rockers both of the outers have the small .060 side pins, so all three rockers move up or down by hand. Onthe early rockers only two did that, like the ones you have.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On the newer rockers both of the outers have the small .060 side pins, so all three rockers move up or down by hand. Onthe early rockers only two did that, like the ones you have. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes i am aware of that, but for people that dont know, there you go. FYI this is a 95' B18C1 Head.. Just for reference....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On the newer rockers both of the outers have the small .060 side pins, so all three rockers move up or down by hand. Onthe early rockers only two did that, like the ones you have. </TD></TR></TABLE>ok that explains it sort of, but since this is a newer head, it should have those other small pins for the 3rd arm to be coordinated with the first 2.

yes I understand the early heads didnt have the 3rd arm ''in sync''... but I wonder why they made the design change?

the lost motion assemblies all tested fine by hand.

ideas on the clacking?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by owen_the_soyboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok that explains it sort of, but since this is a newer head, it should have those other small pins for the 3rd arm to be coordinated with the first 2.

yes I understand the early heads didnt have the 3rd arm ''in sync''... but I wonder why they made the design change?

the lost motion assemblies all tested fine by hand.

ideas on the clacking?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Improperly set valve clearance. Ramps on the cams too steep and "slamming" the valves shut. Valves sticking in the guides. LMA's sticking. Thats about all the possabilities I can think of now.