Truth about Prospeed header
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From: 562, CA, USA
Truth about Prospeed header
I was the first dyno graph of the Prospeed header and showed good peak #'s, and finally after retuning my Hondata over the weekend found out many facts. Since having problems with my Prospeed header cracking in multiple places, multiple times I've switched to a Greddy header with a 2 1/2" collector mod. Since I work at a dyno facility now I've been able to test the differences. Before with the Prospeed header and my JUN cams my vtec wanted to be at 6500 rpms, I then baselined my Greddy header no other changes and same Hondata program I lost 23 whp. But over the weekend I got to retune my Hondata with the Greddy header and with some help from my boss got to drop the vtec down to 5000 and noticed some major differences. I needed to re-tune because I had a shoot with Road
& Track Speed Magazine, and was able to get peak whp within a few HP. I also got a new muffler with axle-back piping which helped boost #'s about 3-4 whp. In the end with the new muffler and Greddy header I was able to pass my old #'s of 236.4whp and 169 lb/ft torque to 237 whp and 178.x lb/ft of torque. The peak #'s do not say much, in the mid-range I picked up so much torque and horsepower it is a world of difference. At certain points I was able to pick up almost 20whp and 20+lb/ft of torque. I just moved so can't get my scanner out of storage to give you guys a graph, but anyone that has seen my old graphs can see a huge dip after my peak lb/ft of torque in the 5300rpm range, now the torque stays above 170lb/ft till almost 7500 rpms. Horsepower is significantly above my old graphs from 5000 rpms till about 8000 rpms. At 7500 rpms I make about 227whp and is relatively flat, it peaks just past 8000 to 234 whp and drops back down to about 225 at my 8400 rpm cutoff. All in all I'm happy, I only changed mufflers which I was able to baseline about 3-4whp more than my old muffler and did all my tests on a dynapack.
Yeah yeah I know a dynapack this and that, but it is still able to show the difference in power from one change to another regardless of how it reads.
I know it doesn't say much without my actual dyno graphs, but I've had graphs in the past on Honda-tech, and Speed Magazine should show my recent dyno plots when the feature on my car actually comes out.
I hope this helps shed some light on headers. I helped push the Prospeed header when it first came out and didn't receive anything in return, and now that I have some more solid information about it, I thought I'd share it with the rest of my fellow Honda-Tech-er's.
& Track Speed Magazine, and was able to get peak whp within a few HP. I also got a new muffler with axle-back piping which helped boost #'s about 3-4 whp. In the end with the new muffler and Greddy header I was able to pass my old #'s of 236.4whp and 169 lb/ft torque to 237 whp and 178.x lb/ft of torque. The peak #'s do not say much, in the mid-range I picked up so much torque and horsepower it is a world of difference. At certain points I was able to pick up almost 20whp and 20+lb/ft of torque. I just moved so can't get my scanner out of storage to give you guys a graph, but anyone that has seen my old graphs can see a huge dip after my peak lb/ft of torque in the 5300rpm range, now the torque stays above 170lb/ft till almost 7500 rpms. Horsepower is significantly above my old graphs from 5000 rpms till about 8000 rpms. At 7500 rpms I make about 227whp and is relatively flat, it peaks just past 8000 to 234 whp and drops back down to about 225 at my 8400 rpm cutoff. All in all I'm happy, I only changed mufflers which I was able to baseline about 3-4whp more than my old muffler and did all my tests on a dynapack.
Yeah yeah I know a dynapack this and that, but it is still able to show the difference in power from one change to another regardless of how it reads.
I know it doesn't say much without my actual dyno graphs, but I've had graphs in the past on Honda-tech, and Speed Magazine should show my recent dyno plots when the feature on my car actually comes out.
I hope this helps shed some light on headers. I helped push the Prospeed header when it first came out and didn't receive anything in return, and now that I have some more solid information about it, I thought I'd share it with the rest of my fellow Honda-Tech-er's.
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Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Thunderhill, CA
Re: Truth about Prospeed header (@ries)
Okay, im having a little hard time understanding this. So, since you've had cracks in your prospeed, you went with a greddy and 2.5 collector. And with that plus a new muffler, you were able to surpass the peak power given by the prospeed?
I know, its late, i should sleep, but not now lol.
I know, its late, i should sleep, but not now lol.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Boston, Ma, USA
Re: Truth about Prospeed header (Hank the retard)
I believe it 
. Only cause I want to believe it... because I own one... 
But I really do believe this, I've heard things like this from numerous accounts. However, I always thought that they just lost power on stock or mildly modified cars(low and mid range power that is.), but you're running stage 3 cams and still loosing power throughout the band. 
. Only cause I want to believe it... because I own one... But I really do believe this, I've heard things like this from numerous accounts. However, I always thought that they just lost power on stock or mildly modified cars(low and mid range power that is.), but you're running stage 3 cams and still loosing power throughout the band.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Oxnard, CA, USA
Re: Truth about Prospeed header (97Preludeguy)
HERE IS MY TRUTH ABOUT PROSPEED HEADERS
I ordered a Prospeed Header when it originally came out.
It was the mild steel version w/ the street collector.
I originally made 188 WHP on a Dynoyet w/ a normal DC Sports Header after Hondata tuning.
With the Prospeed Header, I made 192 WHP, only a 4HP Peak Gain after Hondata tuning.
HOWEVER, I lost as much as 10 - 12 WHP in mid-range power. I went to the local track, and I ran slower quarter mile times.
On top of that, it cracked on me. I had it fixed, and it cracked on me again.
This is not to bash anything about Prospeed though. The next time it cracked on me again, I told Brian how unhappy I was. He took care of me as a customer. I gave him my header, and I picked a header up the month later. He told me that this time, it should not crack. However, I didn't want to risk it, so I sold it.
UPDATES SINCE
Earlier versions of the Prospeed Header were made of 18G steel. They are thinner than what most people use. That contributed to the cracking. I believe current versions of them now are 16G steel.
A friend gave the Prospeed header a try. On another motor running 11.0:1 Compression and JUN3 Cams, he gained 8 - 10WHP throughout the whole powerband.
MORAL
Earlier Prospeed Headers were the thinner 18G steel. Newer ones are 16G and should not have issues w/ cracking (I hope). Prospeed Headers don't seem to do much for almost stock H22A motors, but they seem to be doing well if you have high compression and agressive cams.
Likelihood of me purchasing another one: Little to None, because I spent too much time and money at a muffler shop to make everything work. On top of it, I had to tune them too.
I hope this helps with judgement should any of you decide to purchase one.
I ordered a Prospeed Header when it originally came out.
It was the mild steel version w/ the street collector.
I originally made 188 WHP on a Dynoyet w/ a normal DC Sports Header after Hondata tuning.
With the Prospeed Header, I made 192 WHP, only a 4HP Peak Gain after Hondata tuning.
HOWEVER, I lost as much as 10 - 12 WHP in mid-range power. I went to the local track, and I ran slower quarter mile times.
On top of that, it cracked on me. I had it fixed, and it cracked on me again.
This is not to bash anything about Prospeed though. The next time it cracked on me again, I told Brian how unhappy I was. He took care of me as a customer. I gave him my header, and I picked a header up the month later. He told me that this time, it should not crack. However, I didn't want to risk it, so I sold it.
UPDATES SINCE
Earlier versions of the Prospeed Header were made of 18G steel. They are thinner than what most people use. That contributed to the cracking. I believe current versions of them now are 16G steel.
A friend gave the Prospeed header a try. On another motor running 11.0:1 Compression and JUN3 Cams, he gained 8 - 10WHP throughout the whole powerband.
MORAL
Earlier Prospeed Headers were the thinner 18G steel. Newer ones are 16G and should not have issues w/ cracking (I hope). Prospeed Headers don't seem to do much for almost stock H22A motors, but they seem to be doing well if you have high compression and agressive cams.
Likelihood of me purchasing another one: Little to None, because I spent too much time and money at a muffler shop to make everything work. On top of it, I had to tune them too.
I hope this helps with judgement should any of you decide to purchase one.
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From: 562, CA, USA
Re: Truth about Prospeed header (cpforyou)
Cp I guess I had very similar results as yours, because I had the earlier version also. But my motor is fairly built too, I'm running very close to 11:1 compression with JUN cams and an Alaniz head.
I can't compare to the newer version, they did look a little different to me. My header had cracked about 4 times and I kept fixing it and just got sick and tired of it. I know that both headers want completely different tuning. Just seems like the motor has to be a unique setup to take advantage of the 4-1 design. Now I'm happy with the Greddy header, but would like a more custom header like SMSP/RMF/Hy-Tech in the future. I'll probably go with a JG manifold first and see how that does.
Overall I did lose about 3-4 peak whp with the Greddy over the Prospeed, but picked up lots of midrange. My new muffler made up for the 3-4 peak whp and now look better than ever on power throughout the power band. I'll eventually scan the graph and post it up, but I can't promise anything real soon.
I can't compare to the newer version, they did look a little different to me. My header had cracked about 4 times and I kept fixing it and just got sick and tired of it. I know that both headers want completely different tuning. Just seems like the motor has to be a unique setup to take advantage of the 4-1 design. Now I'm happy with the Greddy header, but would like a more custom header like SMSP/RMF/Hy-Tech in the future. I'll probably go with a JG manifold first and see how that does.
Overall I did lose about 3-4 peak whp with the Greddy over the Prospeed, but picked up lots of midrange. My new muffler made up for the 3-4 peak whp and now look better than ever on power throughout the power band. I'll eventually scan the graph and post it up, but I can't promise anything real soon.
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From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
i've had no cracking problems with my prospeed. i'm not even running a flex pipe.
on the dynapack i pulled 186.9 whp with bolt ons. yeah dyno # comparisons are pretty much worthless, but i was pretty happy with the #. I do admit that i could probably use more midrange power, but the hp curve is pretty flat. tq curve could be a lot flatter. i think there's another 5 whp in the car if i get a hf cat and reweld the flange on the header to something that isn't restricting exhaust flow.
but, i'm going to try to go with an RMF next, just because i'm curious. But, i guess i'm the exception to the rule b/c almost every experience i've had w/ prospeed and their header was very positive.
my $.02.
on the dynapack i pulled 186.9 whp with bolt ons. yeah dyno # comparisons are pretty much worthless, but i was pretty happy with the #. I do admit that i could probably use more midrange power, but the hp curve is pretty flat. tq curve could be a lot flatter. i think there's another 5 whp in the car if i get a hf cat and reweld the flange on the header to something that isn't restricting exhaust flow.
but, i'm going to try to go with an RMF next, just because i'm curious. But, i guess i'm the exception to the rule b/c almost every experience i've had w/ prospeed and their header was very positive.
my $.02.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 690
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From: Canada
Re: (bad-monkey)
Thanks for sharing the info.
This further proves that Prospeed is strictly for top end peak hp but lacks the midrange, its not ideal for the street. So far with all the dynos posted on the board, looks like H22 reponds better overall with 4-2-1 Tri-Y than 4-1. A well design header has to give decent gains under the curve, thats what makes the car fast. As far as Ive seen, SMSP is only custom header that makes huge gains throughout the power band.
This further proves that Prospeed is strictly for top end peak hp but lacks the midrange, its not ideal for the street. So far with all the dynos posted on the board, looks like H22 reponds better overall with 4-2-1 Tri-Y than 4-1. A well design header has to give decent gains under the curve, thats what makes the car fast. As far as Ive seen, SMSP is only custom header that makes huge gains throughout the power band.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Oxnard, CA, USA
Re: (VSBB6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VSBB6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for sharing the info.
This further proves that Prospeed is strictly for top end peak hp but lacks the midrange, its not ideal for the street. So far with all the dynos posted on the board, looks like H22 reponds better overall with 4-2-1 Tri-Y than 4-1. A well design header has to give decent gains under the curve, thats what makes the car fast. As far as Ive seen, SMSP is only custom header that makes huge gains throughout the power band.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe a 4-1 Header design can still work, depending on the situation.
The header I bought was a shelf Prospeed header, but for all I know, it could have originally been designed for his 235WHP 2.3L Race Motor.
This further proves that Prospeed is strictly for top end peak hp but lacks the midrange, its not ideal for the street. So far with all the dynos posted on the board, looks like H22 reponds better overall with 4-2-1 Tri-Y than 4-1. A well design header has to give decent gains under the curve, thats what makes the car fast. As far as Ive seen, SMSP is only custom header that makes huge gains throughout the power band.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe a 4-1 Header design can still work, depending on the situation.
The header I bought was a shelf Prospeed header, but for all I know, it could have originally been designed for his 235WHP 2.3L Race Motor.
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From: 562, CA, USA
Re: (cpforyou)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cpforyou »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Maybe a 4-1 Header design can still work, depending on the situation.
The header I bought was a shelf Prospeed header, but for all I know, it could have originally been designed for his 235WHP 2.3L Race Motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hmm... mine was a shelf header too, I know I was the first or second to purchase a header off of Prospeed, I had to bang the crap out of my crossmember to make it fit. I guess there were some corrections after my header. It does seem that the header could of been for his race motor, not really sure though. I know the results now, and next week Speed magazine is gonna do some acceleration tests, so hopefully those turn out good with the extra midrange power found.
I'm curious to see how the RMF headers will dyno, I do believe with a proper design that a 4-1 header can make power on a H22. For now though I'm perfectly happy with this Greddy header, just hope to save up enough for a JG manifold and test back to back results against my stock manifold.
Maybe a 4-1 Header design can still work, depending on the situation.
The header I bought was a shelf Prospeed header, but for all I know, it could have originally been designed for his 235WHP 2.3L Race Motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hmm... mine was a shelf header too, I know I was the first or second to purchase a header off of Prospeed, I had to bang the crap out of my crossmember to make it fit. I guess there were some corrections after my header. It does seem that the header could of been for his race motor, not really sure though. I know the results now, and next week Speed magazine is gonna do some acceleration tests, so hopefully those turn out good with the extra midrange power found.
I'm curious to see how the RMF headers will dyno, I do believe with a proper design that a 4-1 header can make power on a H22. For now though I'm perfectly happy with this Greddy header, just hope to save up enough for a JG manifold and test back to back results against my stock manifold.
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From: NorCar!?
my rmf numbers will be on a stock motor.....i right now have a greddy with 2.5 collector....and im switching to rmf in the next few weeks, then tuning...
i might go baseline now, im on an s200 untuned basemap....
i might go baseline now, im on an s200 untuned basemap....
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Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Canada
Re: (98vtec)
What is your driving impression so far with the RMF header?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wish i could help you guys out with numbers on a stock motor, but unfortunately i will only be getting numbers with a built head.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wish i could help you guys out with numbers on a stock motor, but unfortunately i will only be getting numbers with a built head.</TD></TR></TABLE>
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Cantonment, FL
Re: (VSBB6)
i cant FEEL too much of a difference until vtec crossover. When vtec engages its an immediate difference. Acceleration is much better. Throttle response also improved greatly. Lets just say im real excited to see what the cams will do with it.
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Re: (jd3jdm)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jd3jdm »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my rmf numbers will be on a stock motor.....i right now have a greddy with 2.5 collector....and im switching to rmf in the next few weeks, then tuning...
i might go baseline now, im on an s200 untuned basemap....</TD></TR></TABLE>
i meant to say that, i was on the wrong user name...woops....
felt difference is not what we need, my dyno sheets will show the truth, just wait, i should have the rmf in the next week or two...
BTW: MY GREDDY WITH 2.5 COLLECTOR IS UP FOR SALE!!!! BUY IT 550 SHIPPED....LINK IN MY SIG
and yes i know all caps is annoying, but needing 550 bucks badly is worse....
i might go baseline now, im on an s200 untuned basemap....</TD></TR></TABLE>
i meant to say that, i was on the wrong user name...woops....
felt difference is not what we need, my dyno sheets will show the truth, just wait, i should have the rmf in the next week or two...
BTW: MY GREDDY WITH 2.5 COLLECTOR IS UP FOR SALE!!!! BUY IT 550 SHIPPED....LINK IN MY SIG
and yes i know all caps is annoying, but needing 550 bucks badly is worse....
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From: 562, CA, USA
Re: (mgags7)
wow sorry took so long with the dyno graphs
here is with the Prospeed header and Greddy SP muffler
dark blue= before Alaniz head
light blue= after Alaniz head and O2 pipe in exhaust
red= O2 pipe pulled out (lots of exhaust restriction)
this is the Greddy header w/ 2 1/2" collector mod and Tanabe 3" muffler, piping is still the same
hope i didnt miss anything
here is with the Prospeed header and Greddy SP muffler
dark blue= before Alaniz head
light blue= after Alaniz head and O2 pipe in exhaust
red= O2 pipe pulled out (lots of exhaust restriction)
this is the Greddy header w/ 2 1/2" collector mod and Tanabe 3" muffler, piping is still the same
hope i didnt miss anything
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From: nunya, GAHdamnBusiness, ethiopia
Re: Truth about Prospeed header (precord96)
your the dude that works at that spugen shop like 2 years ago right? with the maroon accord and side exit exhaust and bomex front?
thanks for the comparison^^^
Modified by gaydm.accord at 5:33 AM 8/10/2005
thanks for the comparison^^^
Modified by gaydm.accord at 5:33 AM 8/10/2005
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From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Re:
This is just a general statement on tubing thickness and header fabrication.
Nothing is wrong with 18g material, AS LONG AS IT IS WELDED CORRECTLY.
Please read http://sms-products.com/Construction.html
Nothing is wrong with 18g material, AS LONG AS IT IS WELDED CORRECTLY.
Please read http://sms-products.com/Construction.html
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From: 562, CA, USA
Re: Truth about Prospeed header (gaydm.accord)
yes, I used to work at Spugen.
The numbers are fudged a little, because I switched mufflers. With the same muffler as the one i used with the Prospeed header I make around 229 hp and 175 lb/ft torque, but the midrange is still much stronger.
The car is much faster with the extra midrange power.
The numbers are fudged a little, because I switched mufflers. With the same muffler as the one i used with the Prospeed header I make around 229 hp and 175 lb/ft torque, but the midrange is still much stronger.
The car is much faster with the extra midrange power.
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From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
Re: Truth about Prospeed header (precord96)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by precord96 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes, I used to work at Spugen.
The numbers are fudged a little, because I switched mufflers. With the same muffler as the one i used with the Prospeed header I make around 229 hp and 175 lb/ft torque, but the midrange is still much stronger.
The car is much faster with the extra midrange power.</TD></TR></TABLE>
and now you're working at CAT?
hook a fellow h22 guy up the next time i'm there
Waiting for a high flow cat and a diff muffler and the T1r header to re-dyno. Might do a back to back to compare the 2 (prospeed vs. t1r)
The numbers are fudged a little, because I switched mufflers. With the same muffler as the one i used with the Prospeed header I make around 229 hp and 175 lb/ft torque, but the midrange is still much stronger.
The car is much faster with the extra midrange power.</TD></TR></TABLE>
and now you're working at CAT?
hook a fellow h22 guy up the next time i'm there
Waiting for a high flow cat and a diff muffler and the T1r header to re-dyno. Might do a back to back to compare the 2 (prospeed vs. t1r)
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