Sorry guys for the "what do you think it is" post, as I normally can troubleshoot the problem. However, I'm with a <U>complete</U> question mark as to whats wrong with my car now

Anyhow, I have a 2000 Type R..and have maybe put 5-600 miles on it since Ive owned it for about a year

Today I took it out, after it not being driven for about two weeks..and everything went fine til I got to a buddy of mines house.

Upon normal driving and shifting, I knoticed my clutch giving the "loss of compression" feeling. Which encountered in my head that maybe from sitting, it had got air in line (as I have had this similar problem with previous cars on there brakes from sitting).
Anyhow, I knoticed it was very hard shift..and after a few more minutes...I had nearly nothing left but too shift without the clutch by matching the rpm's.

I made it to an Autozone, and got me 8mm wrench and some Dot 3 brake fluid and bled the clutch line..but I had a strong stream with no air coming out????

I did hear squeaking happening when pushing in the clutch..however this has been a common problem with alot of previously owned cars..and my Type R has as well been doing this for a while..

Another weird thing that is happening, is with putting minor pressure on the clutch pedal..you can feel vibrations within it.

And when i do manage to get it into gear by "pumping" the clutch pedal..I get a dry "squealy" type noise.
Last but not least, when i pump the clutch..and feathering the gas..it spontaneously makes the clutch grab extremely harsh..making the dash shake


Sorry for the long story..but as I mentioned...usually I can figure out what and why a problem is happening.

However, Im confused as to what exactly happened..as I was simply cruising and babying her..and the most part..is how it ""gradually" went out.


Can any of you, possibly give me some advice or point of direction as what it could be?


Your help will be MUCH appreciated

-Greg


*****************UPDATED 6-17-05***********************

Anyhow, Part 2

I just went out to the car..after its "nights rest", and pushed the clutch pedal with the car off..and knoticed..it felt COMPLETELY normal now.

So I started it up..and again...with the clutch in..i could "freely" go through my gears easily..as this was the exact oposite yesterday??????

However, letting the clutch out..i knoticed the same dry "squealy" sound..coming from the trans.

Wth is this!!

After about two minutes..that vibration to the clutch pedal did come back..and I knoticed..that shifting the gears (all though it felt much better then yesterday) did start to get a little harder to put in.

Hopefully, someone can give me some feedback on this..

I just really dont wanna yank the trans out...and find out...its not the clutch




Modified by MinorityGreg at 1:43 PM 6/17/2005

 

It's possible that it's a master cylinder failure. Perfect opportunity to upgrade to the Omni...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kendall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's possible that it's a master cylinder failure. Perfect opportunity to upgrade to the Omni...</TD></TR></TABLE>is there anyway properly to do some type of "diagnostic" check to see if my m/c is indeed failing? Would I be losing fluid?

Thanks for quick response Kendall...

I owe you one

 

Sounds like the same problem I had when my preesure plate gave out on me @ 50k. No warning, just started it up and couldn't shift into or out of any gears with out rev matching.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Opie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like the same problem I had when my preesure plate gave out on me @ 50k. No warning, just started it up and couldn't shift into or out of any gears with out rev matching.</TD></TR></TABLE>wow, as much as I dont hear this..this is really the only real feeling that Im getting is wrong with it.

Cause, when engaged..the clutch grabs fine..

I think Im do for a new clutch

 

What mileage are you at and what clutch are you running?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Opie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What mileage are you at and what clutch are you running?</TD></TR></TABLE>Stock Clutch 44k miles

Also, Opie...when you did manage to drive the car..did you knotice when you came to complete stop..that pumping the clutch allowed to get it into 1st gear?

Thanks again for your advice..

 

squeeking pedel = failing master cylinder. Check the rod and if it has fluid on it (under the pedal) its going out. The rod should be bone dry.

Thats my "IMO" for ya

 

Sounds like you might have this problem:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1281402


Yes, clutch will still work in some instances (mine did). I had the squeal too. Also intermittant engagement. Turned out the spring keeper boss on the disc had cracked, and a small piece was floating around, probably getting stuck between the PP and the disc occasionally.

Sucks, but common problem. GL!

:edit: Check the master rod for fluid. If you are pumping it, and it starts working better (as you pump it more), it's more likely the master. The squealing sound from the clutch makes me think not tho. Ever shift it hard? (e.g. let the clutch out hard at full power/vtec)?

 

Try this for a test:

Car turned off. Clutch out, in gear on a slight slope. 1) Push the cluth, note how easily it rolls, and if you hear scraping as it moves. 2) Hold the brake, pump the clutch 10-12 times. Repeat #1. Is it any better? If so, it's the master. If not, start the car, use the clutch, turn it off (may have to do this a couple of times), repeat #1. Any change after motor on and it's probably the clutch.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks guys for all your help and support. Times like this where you feel very lucky to have the internet


Anyhow, Part 2

I just went out to the car..after its "nights rest", and pushed the clutch pedal with the car off..and knoticed..it felt COMPLETELY normal now.

So I started it up..and again...with the clutch in..i could "freely" go through my gears easily..as this was the exact oposite yesterday??????

However, letting the clutch out..i knoticed the same dry "squealy" sound..coming from the trans.

Wth is this!!

After about two minutes..that vibration to the clutch pedal did come back..and I knoticed..that shifting the gears (all though it felt much better then yesterday) did start to get a little harder to put in.

Hopefully, someone can give me some feedback on this..

I just really dont wanna yank the trans out...and find out...its not the clutch


Thanks again


-Greg

 

Just bleed the clutch (easy). Buy a 'one-man' bleeder with a one-way valve to make it easier. Then try again. Still wonky? It's most likely the clutch. Mine did the same. Fine one minute, nappy the next. It was my clutch disc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ill &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just bleed the clutch (easy). Buy a 'one-man' bleeder with a one-way valve to make it easier. Then try again. Still wonky? It's most likely the clutch. Mine did the same. Fine one minute, nappy the next. It was my clutch disc.</TD></TR></TABLE>yah, i already tried bleeding it the first time (and burnt my finger on the header )
but yah, im leading also to what your saying..a bad clutch

 

I don't think I've ever seen anybody answer this, and I hope this isn't too off topic for the thread:

How much "improving" on the motor do you think we can go before the OEM ITR clutch is no longer the cost effective replacement clutch? Just how much HP can the OEM clutch handle?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ill &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like you might have this problem:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1281402


Yes, clutch will still work in some instances (mine did). I had the squeal too. Also intermittant engagement. Turned out the spring keeper boss on the disc had cracked, and a small piece was floating around, probably getting stuck between the PP and the disc occasionally.

Sucks, but common problem. GL!

:edit: Check the master rod for fluid. If you are pumping it, and it starts working better (as you pump it more), it's more likely the master. The squealing sound from the clutch makes me think not tho. Ever shift it hard? (e.g. let the clutch out hard at full power/vtec)?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good luck.

An update on my post:
I bled the clutch last evening and it remains the same unfortunately.
I'm getting the clutch, pp, bearings and rear main seal for $340 overnighted.
-Matt

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think I've ever seen anybody answer this, and I hope this isn't too off topic for the thread:

How much "improving" on the motor do you think we can go before the OEM ITR clutch is no longer the cost effective replacement clutch? Just how much HP can the OEM clutch handle?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You probably meant, how much torque can the OEM clutch handle?

Depends on how you use it, a drag racer might need a bit more, and something less organic. At least that makes sense to me, I try not to overuse the clutch at track events.

I did a track day with an OEM clutch and 210 WHP, 150 ft-lbs torque, and it didn't slip at all. But surely a stronger clutch is going to last longer than an OEM one stretched way past its capacity (whatever that capacity is).

 

LOL... That was no help at all!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> LOL... That was no help at all!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would wager that a stock clutch can handle just about any N/A ITR motor. But then again, I have been known to have a gambling problem.

It's an interesting question, and I'd love to hear some more data points on it.

-Chris

 

imho, spring broke/ fell out of the clutch disc.

pull the tranny and replace.

 

Try changing your slave cylinder first. If that doesn't solve it, pull the tranny off and inspect the clutch. I know it's not what you want to hear/do, but that's what happened to me at 52k. Once I got the bell housing off, I heard a piece of metal from pressure plate hit the ground.

 

Yes, I'd like to see some empirical data on this too. Anyone? (time to start a new thread methinks).

I think the power the stock clutch can handle will depend on the application and the driver. The thing I love about the stock clutch is how well it holds, while still providing a nice easy feel at the pedal. I'm sure there are stronger clutches, but I would not want to drive them in traffic, or pay twice the price. When my R becomes a track *****, I'll go aftermarket, lightweight flywheel, etc.

A good driver using the R for it's intended road race style purpose will not break the clutch easily (i.e. smooth and controlled, not banging shifts). It's the full power, tire chirping, VTEC shifts at 8400 that do it in. If you want to do this, maybe get Hondata w/FPS option, or use the stock clutch (PP) with a different disc.

You don't drag race Ferrari's or Type R's IMHO.