I've had a change of heart. For weeks I had my thoughts set on doing the infamous Franlenstein LS/VTEC swap or CR/VTEC Swap in my 88 CRX Si. I read countless forums end to end about what you need, what you don't need, K-Series is better, the sleeves suck, you can boost them, the sleeves suck and too many other things to list. But after having spent about 2 hours this morning doing as much research asI think I could to see what it's really gonna cost to go B16A1, LS/VTEC or GSR. I've compiled a lot of information in the pictures below. The prices in the pictures are based on buying the various motors from HMOtorsonline.com. They are highly recommended and have good warranties on what they sell. Many people all over Honda-Tech and other forums I visit hold them in high regard. On top of that, they also sell HASport swap items at discounted prices. What is not included in the prices are buying things like: New Water Pump, Oil, Spark Plugs, Seals, Tranny Fluid, Timing Belt, Tools, Shop Costs, Labor, Alternator Belt, A/C Belt, and things of that nature. This is based on the fact that even though we all know we should replace them, many of us do not. You can expect to spend another 100 200 bucks depending on your swap and quality of parts. The other thing I did not include is wiring. There are wiring diagrams all over that damn internet. If you can't find them, you need to make more friends or ask somebody. Not to mention that between websites like HASprt.com, LoCashRacing.com and RyWire.com you can find the a premade ECU and Distrubutor harness and VTEC-subharness for your Honda-to-Honda heart transplant. I hope many of you will find these pictures as enlightening as i did. If you have any questions, feel free to post them. If I can't answer them, I'm sure someone else on here can. Please remember that these swaps are tailored to the 88-91 CRX Si. I know alot of people say CRX/Civic but since I don't know all that about the 88-91 Civics, I'm not going to put my foot in my mouth. Enjoy.









And for those of you who were following this post before today, I have to decided to hold my wallet and wait for a GSR Swap. A detailed cost for the LS/VTEC isn't even listed because it's nothing more than adding $1000 to the B16A1 Swap. The parts would the Golden Eagle LS/VTEC Conversion Kit for about $300 and a B18A, B18B, B20B or B20Z Block. I decided against the LSVTEC Swap fcompletely or my 88 CRX Si simply because it will cost the same one way or the other. And even though the difference in horsepower and torque anre minimal, I rather to have engine built by Honda and not by Marcus Thomas that is meant to rev like the beast it is. Later.

 

i didnt bother to read your "paragraph", but for the price b16a turbo will be cheapre and faster than b18c1...

 

Just a little cost benefit analysis

b16a:

$15.18 per horsepower

b18c1(usdm)

$22.04 per horsepower

b18c(jdm gsr)

$20.82 per horsepower

B18b

$22.4 per horsepower

B18a1

$11.53 per horsepower

ZC

$9.23 per horsepower

 

Umm, why on earth would you buy alot more of the same parts twice. When it says complete change over, that is exactly what it means. So all the CRAP you have listed on the side there is not something you need.
What you need:
HMO full swap
oil
oil filter
mount kit
antifreeze
timing belt
water pump

custom work
cut 2 inches out of the teg linkage
custom fit throttle cable

That is it dude. All the other stuff you have listed is just extra oarts you already have. Is the gs-r a better motor...yeah BUT is 20 HP and a few ft lbs tq worth $1650....hell ******* no. HMO b16a swap is 1499 plus shipping, gs-r is 3149 plus you MUST have a hydro to cable conversion kit for it. So 1650 plus the cost of the hydro conversion kit for 20 hp.

 

I think that the only way the LSVTEC or CRVTEC would be better then a B18C would be if you were building it up internally too. By that I mean swapping out to higher comp pistons, some more aggressive cams, headwork, that kind of thing. Since you have the motor apart anyways, might as well do some internal work to make the LS/CRVTEC swap more worthwhile.

That's just my opinion though

oh yah, I'm with crxgator too. Not only will a b16 turbo be faster, but it will be more fun to drive too.

 

my turbo zc cost less then the b16 and is faster than the b18c1 i thought that was funny

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 91civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just a little cost benefit analysis

b16a:

$15.18 per horsepower

b18c1(usdm)

$22.04 per horsepower

b18c(jdm gsr)

$20.82 per horsepower

B18b

$22.4 per horsepower

B18a1

$11.53 per horsepower

ZC

$9.23 per horsepower

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your breakdown is unacceptable. Your talking like these motors all have the same output and reliability.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DohcVtecCrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Umm, why on earth would you buy alot more of the same parts twice. When it says complete change over, that is exactly what it means. So all the CRAP you have listed on the side there is not something you need.
What you need:
HMO full swap
oil
oil filter
mount kit
antifreeze
timing belt
water pump

custom work
cut 2 inches out of the teg linkage
custom fit throttle cable


That is it dude. All the other stuff you have listed is just extra oarts you already have. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Do stock GSR mounts, shift linkage, Axles and ECU plug right into a CRX? No? Didn't think so either.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DohcVtecCrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is the gs-r a better motor...yeah BUT is 20 HP and a few ft lbs tq worth $1650....hell ******* no. HMO b16a swap is 1499 plus shipping, gs-r is 3149 plus you MUST have a hydro to cable conversion kit for it. So 1650 plus the cost of the hydro conversion kit for 20 hp.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you come with a reliable way of getting 20 more horsepower and 17 more ft/lbs of torque to even match a GSR? Then when you do that, the stock GSR has room for upgrade.

 

knwldge54,

About the axles, I'm pretty sure HMO will give you the correct axles and halfshaft you need for your swap, you just have to ask them for it. So you shouldn't need to buy another set of axles. You'll have to check with HMO to be sure though, I dont know if they stil do this or not, or if they even did it at all.

 

I emailed one place (JHPusa) and from their explanation, when someone says half-shaft they literally mean half an axle. I don't know if I can just pick up the other half I need brand new or even rebuilt and thought that I'd be seraching through AutoZone or eBay looking axles.

 

Stock honda motors are all reliable. A cost benefit analysis is the cost divided by the benefit in this case I took your numbers and divided them by the horsepower. It doesn't matter that they all don't have the same output when it is broken down to dollar per horsepower figures.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by knwldge54 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I emailed one place (JHPusa) and from their explanation, when someone says half-shaft they literally mean half an axle. I don't know if I can just pick up the other half I need brand new or even rebuilt and thought that I'd be seraching through AutoZone or eBay looking axles.</TD></TR></TABLE>

HMO sent me the intermediate shaft plus two axles...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by knwldge54 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I emailed one place (JHPusa) and from their explanation, when someone says half-shaft they literally mean half an axle. I don't know if I can just pick up the other half I need brand new or even rebuilt and thought that I'd be seraching through AutoZone or eBay looking axles.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont know why JHP would have told you that. I've never heard of of half shaft meaning half an axle. The technical term is intermediate shaft, but I've also heard it referred to as a jackshaft or a halfshaft. Then you have your equal length axles for both the driver side and passenger side. The intermediate shaft (or whatever you want to call it) is the part that goes between the tranny and the driver side axle (not sure if you knew that or not). I can post a pic out of my Teg FSM to show you what the intermediate shaft looks like and where it fits in relation to the left and right axles.

You can get axles at autozone if you wanna take advantage of their lifetime warranty. Or if you are patient you can wait until one pops up in the classifieds forum. Or maybe you can register on http://www.G2IC.com and wait for a set of 90-93 Teg NON-ABS LS axles to pop up FS. Whichever axles you go with just make sure that you get the same year/model intermediate shaft.

 

damn man i don't know where you are shopping but you are paying double to 10 times more than i payed for some of my stuff.

 

define "better"

maybe use words like "cost effective" or "reliable" or "simplistic"

not bashing

 

In the End though, the B18C1 is faster then any b16.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Silkex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In the End though, the B18C1 is faster then any b16.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats such a broad generalization its not even funny.

 

like the other guys said, complete changeover includes axles , and linkage throttle cable so you save a whopping $290.00 on b16a changeover and b18c

 

LOL the gs-r does not have any more room for upgrade. WTF parts you think you can put on or in a gs-r and not in a b16a? Rods and crank are the only 2 answers cause everything else is swapable from one motor to the other. For 1650 you should be able to make more than 20 more reliable HP or you should not be modding honda's.

And to your other question, if you gonna put in a gs-r motor, no the mounts do not work, yes the axles work, yes you can make the shiftlinkage fit, and yes if you gonna run that swap you will have to make the ecu plug in (conversion harness).

A half shaft is an intermediate shaft. You have 2 axles that are the same legnth, then the inter shaft bolts on the back of the block and spins the other axle. It is to eliminate torqe steer.

The cost of your gs-r swap is getting close to the cost of my complete car (89 civic, b16a sc 61 turbo hondata ect ect ect) and it will reliably beat the living **** out of a jdm stock gs-r motor.

 

Oh geez, LS/VTEC starts so many arguments, haha

 

Welcome to the darkside.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1213427

 

For the price of one GSR swap, I could have TWO faster SOHC Turbos!

 

Ok I have thought about posting this for a long time but never cared too. I have driven a GSR, and I have a b16 in my rex. I couldnt feel a difference between motors or cars, except mine was lighter. It seems like everyone says the GSR is worth it because of the torque but its not a massive change anyways. I dont know just my opinion I'm still happy with my b16. From your number comparisions the GSR is about $1200+ for the 20 more HP, and 17 Ft-lbs torque. You could have $1200 more for mods alone on the b16 or the car itself. Just my 2 cents.

 

I could feel the difference between the two. Its not huge but the B16 just kinda is blah out of VTEC compared. Haha, I just saw your user name, Hondasaurus rex, hahaha. Thats pretty cool

 

id take a well modded b16 over a stock gsr any day...

 

hahahahahahahahahahaha Suck My DX, best user name EVAR