Im working on a Crx and i have 10.2 inc diskes in the front, and ill have drums in the back is it really nessary to put rotors in the back??? or not cause i know that over 60% of braking is done with the front... If I should really conver them to rotors.. Is there a way to keep the drum a arms and put rotors on it... cause I kinda need to use this spindles they are for a AWD crx project.

thanks

 

Yes 60 % of braking is done with the front. But what about the other 40 %? If you are adding power and/or a bigger set of wheels that it would be a smart thing to get rotors for the rear. I say bigger wheels because of the rotational mass. More mass is harder to stop. Not only will that be a safer way to go, but the braking perfomance will be out of control. You will stop on a dime 90-91 crx si came with rear dics. You can also swap out the stock drums for 90+ integra rear dics. They sell these swaps everywhere, Honda-tech, ebay, ect. Everybody is sooo involved in making gobs amount of power with no way of slowing down. What good is your Honda if its wraped around a tree because you couldnt stop. Hope this helps!!!!!!!!!

 

not to say it wouldnt be better with discs in the back (it will),
but it will be fine with F disc 10.2 and R stock drums

just use good components in the entire braking system

people autoX with the rear drums

they are also quite a bit lighter
you can also put the (84-87?) HF aluminum drums on there to save more weight

 

your gonna have much more stoping power in the front if you went to a 10.2. so when you really jam on the brakes , the front is gonna want to nose dive. if you can live with that then no its not really a problem. if the car is for Autocross i would go with discs in the back though for sure.

 

Not me. If the car were for autocross, I'd stick with the rear drums, or as mentioned above, swap out for the aluminum rear drums from the first-gen CRX HF. While I'll agree that IN GENERAL rear disks are better, when it comes to autocrossing, I'll take the difference in unsprung weight. If I need more rear braking power, Porterfield makes rear shoes for the drum setup...

Mike

 

brake tech is more complicated than many realize. brakes stop you within a certain instance. often upgrading brakes on CRX, wheter bigger in front, discs in rear or both results in LONGER stopping distances. adjusting (correcting) brake bias is the answer to this. few understand it or how to do it. drums are lighter than discs. drums are a real pain to change pads for. bigger discs handle more heat and are better for track days or races cause they prevent fade. if you have drums and they do the job why change? if they don't do the job, do some research before you change. often the cheaper (much cheaper) upgrade from a small disc to a larger one that was stock on another model works better than the aftermarket kit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tolnep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">brake tech is more complicated than many realize. brakes stop you within a certain instance. often upgrading brakes on CRX, wheter bigger in front, discs in rear or both results in LONGER stopping distances. adjusting (correcting) brake bias is the answer to this. few understand it or how to do it. drums are lighter than discs. drums are a real pain to change pads for. bigger discs handle more heat and are better for track days or races cause they prevent fade. if you have drums and they do the job why change? if they don't do the job, do some research before you change. often the cheaper (much cheaper) upgrade from a small disc to a larger one that was stock on another model works better than the aftermarket kit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What he said.

Often as not, the rear disk swaps and "big brake" rotor upgrades are for cosmetic, not performance, reasons. I have no problem whatsoever with that. For my own personal preferences, I like the setup I run on my autocross car ('87 CRX Si): $18 AutoZone front rotors (haven't warped 'em in three full seasons of running), Porterfield front pads and rear shoes (R-4S compound, which doesn't have to build heat to start working, like the full-race R-4 compounds do), Valvoline Heavy Duty brake fluid (Used to use ATE SuperBlue Racing fluid, but I find the much cheaper Valvoline HD to work just as well, and have never boiled it or had any fading issues), and braided stainless brake lines.

The thing that's overlooked the MOST, though, by so many people, is this simple fact: Brakes only stop the wheels. TIRES stop the car! You can put on the biggest rotors, grippiest pads, and best fluid on the planet, but if you're using them with Pep-Boys 4-for-$99 "Dick Skinner Radials", you're not going to stop in time. You'll lock up and just sssssssllllliiiiiiide into whatever you were trying to avoid.

Like I said, I have no problem at all with big-brake kits or with people swapping out for rear disks; I just don't think they're going to see as dramatic an improvement in braking distances as they'd like to think. That said, I *will* be swapping my '91 DX's rear brakes to the disk setup from a '90 Si. Why? Because I have the parts (stripped off a wrecked CRX) and I like the looks. I don't harbor any delusions that it will cut my stopping distances by any appreciable amount, but it probably won't hurt them, either.

I'd wager that, at least under hard braking conditions, the front brakes do MORE than 60% of the braking, too. The car came stock with damn near 65% of its weight on the front wheels; factor in the weight shift of nailing the brakes, and I bet the front brakes do more like 80% of the work.

So... are rear disk swaps "worth it"? From a performance perspective, not as far as I can see on a car as small and light (and noseheavy) as a CRX. From a purely cosmetic perspective... well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right?

Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kwicko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What he said.

Often as not, the rear disk swaps and "big brake" rotor upgrades are for cosmetic, not performance, reasons. I have no problem whatsoever with that. For my own personal preferences, I like the setup I run on my autocross car ('87 CRX Si): $18 AutoZone front rotors (haven't warped 'em in three full seasons of running), Porterfield front pads and rear shoes (R-4S compound, which doesn't have to build heat to start working, like the full-race R-4 compounds do), Valvoline Heavy Duty brake fluid (Used to use ATE SuperBlue Racing fluid, but I find the much cheaper Valvoline HD to work just as well, and have never boiled it or had any fading issues), and braided stainless brake lines.

The thing that's overlooked the MOST, though, by so many people, is this simple fact: Brakes only stop the wheels. TIRES stop the car! You can put on the biggest rotors, grippiest pads, and best fluid on the planet, but if you're using them with Pep-Boys 4-for-$99 "Dick Skinner Radials", you're not going to stop in time. You'll lock up and just sssssssllllliiiiiiide into whatever you were trying to avoid.

Like I said, I have no problem at all with big-brake kits or with people swapping out for rear disks; I just don't think they're going to see as dramatic an improvement in braking distances as they'd like to think. That said, I *will* be swapping my '91 DX's rear brakes to the disk setup from a '90 Si. Why? Because I have the parts (stripped off a wrecked CRX) and I like the looks. I don't harbor any delusions that it will cut my stopping distances by any appreciable amount, but it probably won't hurt them, either.

I'd wager that, at least under hard braking conditions, the front brakes do MORE than 60% of the braking, too. The car came stock with damn near 65% of its weight on the front wheels; factor in the weight shift of nailing the brakes, and I bet the front brakes do more like 80% of the work.

So... are rear disk swaps "worth it"? From a performance perspective, not as far as I can see on a car as small and light (and noseheavy) as a CRX. From a purely cosmetic perspective... well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right?

Mike</TD></TR></TABLE>


If this is correct than why do ALL of the worlds fastest, lightest, high $ cars come stock with huge front and rear dics. For some of them, they look overkill. And if that wasnt enuf, some of those same cars upgrade. If you have better rears, there wont be much of a "weight shift" when you get on the brakes. When you yank the e brake does you nose slam foward? Mine doesnt......... Bigger rotors and pads = better stopping. Also everything else that was already mentioned( brake lines, fluid ) Yes there is more weight, but the bennys are far better than the cons. Buy lighter wheels to offset that. By the way, i do agree that tires are a huge factor. Stopping a 2000pound car @ 100mph+ is not a job for small stock drum. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tolnep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">brake tech is more complicated than many realize. brakes stop you within a certain instance. often upgrading brakes on CRX, wheter bigger in front, discs in rear or both results in LONGER stopping distances. adjusting (correcting) brake bias is the answer to this. few understand it or how to do it. drums are lighter than discs. drums are a real pain to change pads for. bigger discs handle more heat and are better for track days or races cause they prevent fade. if you have drums and they do the job why change? if they don't do the job, do some research before you change. often the cheaper (much cheaper) upgrade from a small disc to a larger one that was stock on another model works better than the aftermarket kit.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well said.

I think that for light autocross apps, stock is fine. Just get good pads and good tires next to quality fluid and you are set. Discs are always nice to have and if you have the parts, even better. That would also, if you think about it, make your weight distribution more even.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jnbhonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


If this is correct than why do ALL of the worlds fastest, lightest, high $ cars come stock with huge front and rear dics. For some of them, they look overkill. And if that wasnt enuf, some of those same cars upgrade. If you have better rears, there wont be much of a "weight shift" when you get on the brakes. When you yank the e brake does you nose slam foward? Mine doesnt......... Bigger rotors and pads = better stopping. Also everything else that was already mentioned( brake lines, fluid ) Yes there is more weight, but the bennys are far better than the cons. Buy lighter wheels to offset that. By the way, i do agree that tires are a huge factor. Stopping a 2000pound car @ 100mph+ is not a job for small stock drum. ARE YOU KIDDING ME! </TD></TR></TABLE>

You are missing the point. You are comparing an Enzo to an 89 crx hf that wants rear discs

 

i wouldnt bother with changing out rear drums or brakes if you arent concerned with looks. and no, you cant convert just the spindle. the whole trailing arm must be changed to change from rotor to drum, vice versa.

while the percentage of braking is actually more than just 60/40 front/back, the amount of rear braking shouldnt be ignored. but it shouldnt be a real focus either. however, taking from experience in a full season of high speed track road racing with my 90 Si, the rear brake pads showed very little wear, while i went through a handful of front brake pads.

also, consider tho that rotor/caliper brakes are much easier to work with. to some, that alone can be the reason to change.

but like i said, i wouldnt bother. i have embraced my drum brakes on my current 88 Si. i put 87 HF aluminum drums on. theyre much lighter than stock. and look distinctive as well.

 

Grassroots Motorsports did a comparison before and after a drum to disc conversion on a CRX (circa 1998).

The stopping difference was negligible...sometimes the drums did better, sometimes discs took it.
The only advantage discs have over drums is appearence and ease of maintenance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jnbhonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If this is correct than why do ALL of the worlds fastest, lightest, high $ cars come stock with huge front and rear dics. For some of them, they look overkill.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Greater thermal mass allows the brake system to absorb more heat before the brakes fade really bad. And I would bet that 99% of these fast, light cars all weigh more than anyones CRX. Take a look at Lotus if you want an idea of light, and look at the brakes on a Super 7. Not terribly big, huh?

Also, most of the "sports" cars you are thinking of are capable of much higher speeds than even most modified CRXs. Energy increases exponentially with speed, so even just 10 mph more makes a much bigger difference than you might think.

My advice is to research brakes, cars, and physics. You'll soon have your own idea on braking systems, and realize that there's more to it than just having the biggest disc around.

 

I really thank you guys for all the information. But the thing I was asking was That im going to maybe be useing civic AWD rear arms and they have drums on them so I cant swap out the rear drums and put on disks from anoter care becuase the other hondas dont have the A arms made to handle the Rear Axels Im trying to find something to replace the rear partrs of my crx to allow for my rear dif cause its going to be AWD IM thinking about buying CRV ones and cutting them and welding them back together Cause this wagon i bought with AWD doest looking like its going to fit with out cutting ither so mise well get diskbrakes instead of drums if i have to cut the drum arms to get them to fit. Or if any of you can give me any pointers on what A arms to use back there and what model honda they came on.

 

and the disc are less prone to boiling fluid. I use disc on my car for that fact alone not do for better stopping power FYI my car lock up all four 225 hoosiers with ease. The fastest EF autocross car(redshifts) in the nation use rear drums with HF drums BTW.

 

sorry, im not too familiar with the rear suspension of the AWD civic. im not sure what needs to be done. im not quite sure what exactly your predicament is actually. sounds like you want to put the civic awd into your crx. i really have no clue if thats even a bolt in affair.

it would help if you had pictures to show us. id actually really appreciate it for my own enlightenment.

 

I think he's talking about the CRV rear arms, which also have drums. I would guess off the top of my head that they are larger than the CRX drums they would replace, for what it's worth.

One advantage of disc is that there is a larger availibility of pads, in many more compounds. Not saying that one is any better than the other, I have rear disc because my car came with it. If I had drums, I probably wouldn't change to disc unless I got them for free and had some spare time on my hands.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jnbhonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If this is correct than why do ALL of the worlds fastest, lightest, high $ cars come stock with huge front and rear dics. For some of them, they look overkill. And if that wasnt enuf, some of those same cars upgrade. </TD></TR></TABLE>

True, the world's fastest high-dollar cars DO have 4-wheel disks. Not many of them weigh less than 3000 pounds, though, and not many CRXs have a need to haul themselves down from 200mph.

On MOST cars, disk brakes all around is a plus. On a CRX, it's a... maybe. As davens said, one setup will stop quicker than the other in one test, but not in another. That's what GRM found out when they did it on a CRX.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you have better rears, there wont be much of a "weight shift" when you get on the brakes. When you yank the e brake does you nose slam foward? Mine doesnt......... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Weight shift isn't about your braking power; it's about Newton's laws of inertia (a body at rest wants to stay at rest, a body in motion wants to stay in motion). When you haul your car down FAST from speed, the car's inertia shifts forward. When you try to launch your car hard from a stop, the weight shifts rearward - which is why drag-racers call FWD "wrong-wheel drive". And no, if I yank my e-brake my nose doesn't slam forward - which gives you some idea how little the rear brakes really do...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bigger rotors and pads = better stopping. [/qoute]

So if I put 36" rotors and 2' pads on my CRX, I could stop from 100mph in 3 feet? Bigger rotors and pads = less brake fade, which, if you're using a good-quality brake fluid, isn't really going to be an issue, except for that rare occasion where you're doing lapping days on a road course.

[quote]Buy lighter wheels to offset that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm on it. Shopping for Panasport Ultra-Lights right now. 13x7", 9 pounds each. With tires mounted, each wheel and tire weighs 15 pounds. Won't fit over bigger rotors, though... Guess I'm *stuck* with my poor little brakes. I'm sure I'll learn to cope.

Mike

 

all i can go by is my own crx............i have rear dics with a bigger integra booster, and i can honestly say i feel the difference. Especially at high speeds. If not only for looks, but peace of mind.............................................. ..................

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.i have rear dics with a bigger integra booster, and i can honestly say i feel the difference.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's all the reason you need then. At the end of the day, if it makes your car feel better to you, and gives you more confidence in its stopping abilities, then it's all for the good.

Brakes seem to be kind of a "fine line" area; most stock Honda brake systems just - in a word - SUCK. For instance, the latest Civic Si hatchie stopped from 70mph in something like 189' when Car&Driver tested it (2003, was it?). Not good, but not really horrific... until you happen to notice that the 6800-pound 4WD Chevy Suburban XLT did it in 175'.

I'll freely admit that stock Honda brake systems need some help. How far we go from there is where it gets a bit murky... Usually, the FIRST mod I'll do on any Honda I pick up will be fresh rotors, pads, and HD fluid. If nothing else, just that little bit will help the car out quite a lot. Different master cylinders, stainless lines, and such are more like icing on the cake at that point - even if they don't shorten your stopping distances appreciably, they give you a hell of a lot better feel for what the brakes and tires are doing, and allow you to more easily modulate them just a the edge of adhesion - which is what a really good brake setup SHOULD do.

Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jnbhonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">all i can go by is my own crx............i have rear dics with a bigger integra booster, and i can honestly say i feel the difference. Especially at high speeds. If not only for looks, but peace of mind.............................................. ..................</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm assuming you're using the bigger booster AND master cylinder?
That would make a difference in how it feels.
But its been proven it doesn't matter what's on the rear.

 

Anyone know where to get good brake shoes for the drums?

 

[QUOTE=davens]I'm assuming you're using the bigger booster AND master cylinder?
That would make a difference in how it feels.


Yes booster and cylinder

 

Well, Im just wanting to know If i can take the drums off the AWD wagon A arms and bolt a disk on there and make a custome bracket for the caliper and weld it on and have disks in the back cause i hate the loook of drums... and I dont really want them never had a car with them dont really want to ..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EF Two &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone know where to get good brake shoes for the drums?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I know Porterfield makes 'em. Or at least they used to. I bought my rear shoes (R-4S Compound) about 5 years ago, and they still had them listed - and that's for a first-gen CRX, so it stands to reason that they'd have 'em for the 2G as well.

Google up "porterfield brake pads" and see where it takes ya.

Mike

 

BUMP cause I still dont have a ANSWER..!!!!