I have an eg hatch with a jdm b16 Intake and Exhaust.. My friend has and ls vtec in his eg hatch. He says he has crucial wheel spin and launches at idle. I launch at 3000 and he says he cant stay in vtec too long cus the ls block wasnt made for it "duh"

My query is do i really need that much torque to make my car fast. The spoon sports ek type R has 215 whp and only about 120 or 130 torque. Did SPOON do this because the car is so light it doesnt need that much torque to get it moving????


Modified by DM95eg at 12:40 AM 5/30/2005


Modified by DM95eg at 10:10 PM 5/30/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DM95eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have an eg hatch with a jdm b16 IE. My friend has and ls vtec in his eg hatch. He says he has crucial wheel spin and launches at idle. I launch at 3000 and he says he cant stay in vtec too long cus the ls block wasnt made for it "duh"</TD></TR></TABLE>

He can stay in vtec all he wants...but he probobly can't rev high depending on his build and how he put the motor together.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DM95eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My query is do i really need that much torque to make my car fast. The spoon sports ek type R has 215 whp and only about 120 or 130 torque. Is this because the car is so light????</TD></TR></TABLE>


Don't compare your car to the Spoon Sports EK. That car is made strickly for track use as you are using your car for 1/4. The Spoon Sports has it's work put in suspension and power output for the track

with your b16 motor...try to get some agressive camshafts put in and throw in a good header that is dyno'd for well performance

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.RHTuner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

He can stay in vtec all he wants...but he probobly can't rev high depending on his build and how he put the motor together.


Don't compare your car to the Spoon Sports EK. That car is made strickly for track use as you are using your car for 1/4. The Spoon Sports has it's work put in suspension and power output for the track

with your b16 motor...try to get some agressive camshafts put in and throw in a good header that is dyno'd for well performance</TD></TR></TABLE>

i want my car to be good for the track as well. Im just wondering what was their reason for bulding their car like that. Is it because the car is so light they dont want wheel spin and are going for high end power. I just want my car to be a fast NA car that i can push everday on the street. Im rarely at the track and im saving for more mods. I was thinking about the toda racing stroker kit but now im having second doubts. What do u think besides a header and cams which i plan to do real soon should i do to make my car even faster. price is not an option

 

time for a bump!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DM95eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i want my car to be good for the track as well. Im just wondering what was their reason for bulding their car like that. Is it because the car is so light they dont want wheel spin and are going for high end power. I just want my car to be a fast NA car that i can push everday on the street. Im rarely at the track and im saving for more mods. I was thinking about the toda racing stroker kit but now im having second doubts. What do u think besides a header and cams which i plan to do real soon should i do to make my car even faster. price is not an option </TD></TR></TABLE>


Take it easy with the bumps...everybody has questions.

I would just upgrade cam shafts, valvetrain(OMNI for example), get an adjustable cam gear for tuning, whatever pistons you decide to go with, good header, intake and exhaust.

It's all really what you want to go with...I can't tell you what parts to use. All depends on the budget and combo of parts you will use.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.RHTuner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Take it easy with the bumps...everybody has questions.

I would just upgrade cam shafts, valvetrain(OMNI for example), get an adjustable cam gear for tuning, whatever pistons you decide to go with, good header, intake and exhaust.

It's all really what you want to go with...I can't tell you what parts to use. All depends on the budget and combo of parts you will use.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i plan on going with toda spec a cams and hopefully a toda racing header. Not sure if i want to spend that much on an exhaust manifold. Does anyone know if its worth it. Also what are a good set of cam gears

 

nah really,,, he gets a lot of torque,,cuz his ls block,,, but eg are really light,,, so u dont really need that much torque....

 

Your friends problem with his LS is an easy$35 fix! Tell him to buy ARP rod bolts(P/N 208-6001). The weak link in the LS bottom end is the rod bolts(which are known to stretch and break) and the oil pump!

True some cars do not need to produce all that torque to push the car, but it does help once the car gets moving! Ppl always think HP,HP, HP!!!! Then some scream TQ,TQ,TQ!!! Well the honest truth is you need a good balance of both! With a good combination of the two(HP+TQ), you can walk all over a car that has more Hp and less TQ(within a certain degree of limitations now, Dont get it twisted).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your friends problem with his LS is an easy$35 fix! Tell him to buy ARP rod bolts(P/N 208-6001). The weak link in the LS bottom end is the rod bolts(which are known to stretch and break) and the oil pump!

True some cars do not need to produce all that torque to push the car, but it does help once the car gets moving! Ppl always think HP,HP, HP!!!! Then some scream TQ,TQ,TQ!!! Well the honest truth is you need a good balance of both! With a good combination of the two(HP+TQ), you can walk all over a car that has more Hp and less TQ(within a certain degree of limitations now, Dont get it twisted).</TD></TR></TABLE>

alright thats good to know but since i plan on building my motor NA what can i do to make that balace between HP and TQ so that my car wont be all hp. I want my car to be at least 13 seconds NA in the quarter as well as be an auto-cross car. I plan on auto-crossing in about a year when my car is complete

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DM95eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

alright thats good to know but since i plan on building my motor NA what can i do to make that balace between HP and TQ so that my car wont be all hp. I want my car to be at least 13 seconds NA in the quarter as well as be an auto-cross car. I plan on auto-crossing in about a year when my car is complete</TD></TR></TABLE>

What car do you have? Engine? mods?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What car do you have? Engine? mods?</TD></TR></TABLE>

1995 honda civic hatchback with a jdm b16a motor. Password carbon fiber intake and Apexi world sport exhaust

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DM95eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My query is do i really need that much torque to make my car fast. The spoon sports ek type R has 215 whp and only about 120 or 130 torque. Dod SPOON doe this because the car is so light it doesnt need that much torque to get it moving????
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Spoon did this because race engineers actually understand what torque and horsepower are and how they relate instead of trowing old myths around like "torque is acceleration and horsepower top speed" or "torque is low-end and horsepower is top-end pull" and any other non-sense like this.

In short they understand that horsepower is what moves the car around, at ANY rpm, it is the energy output of the engine. Torque in lbs-ft is only a factor in the equation of that energy output, along with RPMs. Torque alone doesn't mean shiznit ; 500lbs-ft at 0rpm isn't moving your car at all, 500lbs-ft of torque at 50rpm gives you 4.76hp and no matter how you look that's still lawn-mower territory and would not move anything very fast.

The only thing a high torque number coupled with a given hp can tell you (with little accuracy) is how soon you get your peak power. But without a given hp and most importantly an engine speed (RPM), a torque figure is absolutely worthless as an indication of performance. It would be like claiming your car is fast because it has an 8000rpm redline.

So in short :
HP = energy output
Lbs-ft = only a factor of energy output
Spoon = race car which doesn't spend much time below 5K rpm so they don't need as much lbs-ft of torque to get the same energy output, which in the end is what moves your car around.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jamez &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So in short :
HP = energy output
Lbs-ft = only a factor of energy output
Spoon = race car which doesn't spend much time below 5K rpm so they don't need as much lbs-ft of torque to get the same energy output, which in the end is what moves your car around.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks for taking the time to write all that info. Im sure im not the only one with questions. Now for what im trying to do what would you recomend. Its going to be a daily driver but i want it to be a fast NA 13 second car

 

BUMP BUMP

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DM95eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thanks for taking the time to write all that info. Im sure im not the only one with questions. Now for what im trying to do what would you recomend. Its going to be a daily driver but i want it to be a fast NA 13 second car</TD></TR></TABLE>


Search!
You need to setup your own motor and read about combinations of speed and power.

If you want to buildup the b16 add some high compression valves, pistons and aftermarket cams and that will bump up your power. If you want to be quick and don't want to spend much, remove your rear back seats and carpet and run it shell like. It will be loud but badass.

Consider getting Individual Throttle bodies if you can manage getting the money for them...that will help you get more air into your motor. Aftermarket exhaust header with full exhaust piping will bump up the hp a bit also.


There are so many combinations and ways of making your b16 faster but you can't keep asking people what they would do because everybody has many combinations.

Your best bet is to check up some all-motor b16a threads and see what people are doing to their b16's that you would like to do.

 

look, the reason why the Spoon engine dont produce much engine is coz of displacement. in your case, you have a B16 like myself. displacement has alot to do with torque. Hp does mean make your car fast, but depending on how well you drive, torque plays an important part as well. some guys like V-8's b/c they feel how powerful it is- and that power is torque. but there are several guys with vtec engines that can beat these V-8's. you're not gona have much torque with a B16, especially since you're going for an NA build. i was gona do an ls/vtec build but my friend who has an LS/vtec said its not a good idea coz the ls bottom-end isnt supposed to spin that fast. a stroker kit would be nice coz i was gona do that as well, but the pistons will have to travel faster than they usually would have to at the same rpms which wears down the engine faster. i planned on keeping my engine for a long time.

if you want more power, get some high compression pistons and get some headwork done. NA power is all about compression and flow. goodluck

 

what is your setup so far?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wasabithegosu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what is your setup so far?</TD></TR></TABLE>

jdm b16a password carbon fiber intakehttp://passwordjdm.com/product.asp?P_ID=866

Apexi world sport exhaust http://shop.store.yahoo.com/hopup1/apwospmuci.html

 

Quick joke

Q. Whats the difference between horsepower and torque?

A. horse power is when you wake up in the morning with a ragging bonner! And torque is when you try to push it down to take a **** and your heels come off the ground!

 

[QUOTE=Mr.RHTuner]

If you want to be quick and don't want to spend much, remove your rear back seats and carpet and run it shell like. It will be loud but badass.

QUOTE]

will removing the back seat really do that much? it cant way a lot

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DM95eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">will removing the back seat really do that much? it cant way a lot</TD></TR></TABLE>


you'd be surprised...
I removed the back seats, headrests and carpet from my friends 4-dr and it was a bit of weight gone...it does make a difference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.RHTuner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


you'd be surprised...
I removed the back seats, headrests and carpet from my friends 4-dr and it was a bit of weight gone...it does make a difference.</TD></TR></TABLE>

how much difference. Anyone have any quarter mile time changes

 

bump

 

eg hatch is pretty lite already but it does make a difference and it mite be a cheap way of gettin some extra speed. but if u want to reduce some extra weight the biggest difference would be gettin a carbon fiber hood, racing rims, and an after-market cat-back exhaust.
so thats all the parts you have so far? here's wut i have and i run low 13s. i dont have an LSD yet but will when it gets in. last time i tried to order they were sold out. an LSD will make a world of difference for track days too
1990 Honda Crx Si w/full interior and A/C-heater
JDM B16A
11.5 JE pistons
Balanced and polished Crank
Eagle H-beam rods w/ARP bolts
Skunk2 Stage 2 Cams with racing retainers and valve springs
Ferrea valves
AEM tru-time cam gears
Stage 2 port and polished Head
Integra Type-R intake Manifold
Edelbrock JG 65mm throttle body
RC 310cc injectors
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Crane cams 11mm Firewire spark plug wire set
MSD SCI-L ignition control
Exedy Stage 1 Racing clutch
Competetion Clutch chromoly flywheel
Weapon-R Dragon intake w/Ram air kit
2.5" 4-1 headers
2.5" Catco Cat Converter
2.5" Catback system w/N1 muffler 4"tip
Hondata s200
Koyo High FLow radiator
Tokico HP shocks
Bomz racing coil overs
Powerstop Front rotors w/AEM brake pads, Stock rear discs
Stock CRX Si 14" rims w/Yokohoma ES100 tires

the most important parts for an NA setup are deffinately compression, camshafts, and head work. you atleast need to get some higher compression pistons, atleast a stage 1 camshaft, and a valve job on your head. the stage 1 cams arent that aggressive so you can still run basicly stock everything else.

 

cool man thanks for the info. Unfortunately after my swap i dont have the amount of funds i used to have. Ive been savin for a year and now that im finished with school ill be working a hell of a lot more. What i want to do next is get a toda racing exhaust manifold and tein basic coilovers then toda racing spec A cams and cam gears