i thought this one up as maybe an explanations to why I.E.H. dont really add power..

<this is all hypotheticaly speaking>
lets just say the f22b motor has available power up to 150 hp using stock internals (this is hypotheticaly im not saying its true) now at the honda factory they restrict it to 140hp stock using small pipes, air restrictors/ resonators,and other emmisions things.. so when you take it home you add your I.E.H to it, unrestricting all that power, you get it back to 150hp since the motor is now running at full power with no restrictors in the way.... now this is differnt for all differnt types of cars... american cars often have many restricting types of parts and thats why you see when they add a simple intake it could give them 10+hp... as for honda cars.. our cars are built using almost all available power... so again lets say the f22b motor has an available 150hp when unrestricted.. you get the car rated at 145hp stock.. you add your I.E.H and that realeases the remaining 5hp.. so thats just about all you can get from I.E.H becuase thats all the stock motor can produce off of stock internals and withought any other modifications.

got anything to add or correct then do so i hope this made sense

 

The reason honda and other manufactures use the restricting things they do is to make the engine quiet, smog legal and efficient. I have found that with honda in particular (the only one I have experienced) is that by removing the air box and resonator it doesn't add hp but more sound. The reason this is is due to honda designed those 'restrictive' parts to still flow well.

Another reason why after adding those parts doesn't give you much power is mostly due in part that the engine is small and compared to a v8 the flow and displacement is drastically different.

Think of trying to breathe through a straw underwater versus a snorkel...the bigger the displacement more air is allowed to exchange.

Secondly, the sohc engines don't produce a lot of power in comparison to other 4 cylinders is because of head flow, again think of the straw analogy, the dohc allow more air flow and more exhaust flow in the head.

Hope that helps.

 

thats all true and fine, but if you realyl get down to it, there is more potential there than 5-10hp if it 1) flows fast enough 2) flows enough in volume 3) flows straighter 4) colder air........if the air is colder youll make more power 100% of the time, maybe not a noticable difference but you always make more power with colder air

 

Duh... what's an I.E.H??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speedzone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Duh... what's an I.E.H?? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Intake, Header, and Ehaust.

 

intake exhaust headers. now what about engine management? doesn't a lot of this have to do with the fact that honda builds their cars to be quiet and efficient when stock? you increase the flow, you change engine management to take advantage of increased flow, and that's where power comes from right? engine management can be anything from computer to cams, right?

 

cams ive always thought to be work to the motor......laptop/piggy-back or any computer is what i call EM

 

engine management...where might a modified ecu come in at...engine management?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phateless &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> engine management can be anything from computer to cams, right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No engine managment is just that, the Engine Control Unit or ecu. This can also be expanded to a VAFC or SAFC controller basically controlling other variables that the ecu does but on a seperate unit available for the user to adjust.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phateless &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">intake exhaust headers. now what about engine management? doesn't a lot of this have to do with the fact that honda builds their cars to be quiet and efficient when stock? you increase the flow, you change engine management to take advantage of increased flow, and that's where power comes from right? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Typically honda has built their motors to pass smog (with flying colors), be quiet and still provide ample power. Once you add i/h/e you really don't need a engine managment system as your performance add-ons are very basic and a simple reset of your ecu will remap your fuel/air mixtures and you can take advantage of your parts. Where you get into bigger gains is fuel managment along with bigger throttle bodies, larger intake manifolds or individual throttle bodies, cam upgrade, an adjustable cam gear and so forth.

Once you get into changing the compression or characteristics of the pistons you need to upgrade other things and can fully take advantage of more power. Better valve springs, boring out your cylinder blocks, milling your head etc etc will change the 'stock'-ness of your entire motor.

Honda makes their engines for not only performance but also longevity as a 12:1 compression probably wouldn't last too long .

If you guys are interested in the whole NA aspect of the engine check out a specific forum on the board ( https://honda-tech.com/zeroforum?id=44 ) and tech/misc forum for engine theory and performance ( https://honda-tech.com/zeroforum?id=15 ).

 

I/H/E work better on older cars this is because older cars were tuned more for fuel economy back in the day, but if u put them on newer cars since they are aimed more towards performance honda tries to extract the most power out of the motors while still passing smog. So if u start changing the engines basic structure aka comp ratios, FI, etc... like ken said thats the only way to start playing with power.

 

what about obdI vs obdII? doesn't obdII compensate for your bolt ons while obdI won't?

 

obd 1 is better than obd2 when it comes to engine mods

 

the reason why obd1 is better is because its less strict on emmisions .. well i think thats why.. since it only has one sensor as to OBD2 has 2 sensors

 

to add to this, i have heard honda's come a little more rich from the factory and this is to run safer. so if you lean out the a/f of what the motor has, you will make more power. an example is american cars have way more restrictions, this is why aftermarket things on a mustang(for example) will make more power than imports with the same setup. obd1 is better because it does limit your motor's potential. obd2 will only allow for less power with the same setup. this being the reason why people with obd2 equipped cars tend to go with an obd1 conversion.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .ken &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Intake, Header, and Exhaust.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Isn't a header part of the exhaust? If i add a Hi flow catalytic converter can i say i have exhaust?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAiL05 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I/H/E work better on older cars this is because older cars were tuned more for fuel economy back in the day.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would have to disagree with you in part. Cars today are achieving higher fuel mileages while at the same time making more power. I would say cars are tuned for fuel mileage now more than ever. I am sure you have noticed the fuel price increase in the last several years?

 

we all have an exhuast on our cars its just depending if its stock or not... but if you add a high flow cat (which doesnt make any sense if you still have the stock exhaust piping) then i think you could say you have a "highflow cat" but not a full exhaust

 

hosepower is loss through drivetrain also, not just restrictive piping.

f22's are 8.8:1 low compression , econo friendly, and a non performance engine to begin with.

now if you had a factory turbo'd vehicle like an audi or supra and then changed the exhaust you would see some decent gains.

even with an h22 and a SMSP or similar header with really good exhaust scavenging you will see decent gains, f22 just wasnt made to be performance oriented.

 

Also any Accord before 2003 does not have an adaptive engine management system. For example, using higher octane fuel hurts engine performance. C&D noticed that the accord V6 went from 200 HP down to 190HP when switching to 91 octane fuel. The newer accord ecus can adapt to things like changes in the exhaust, higher octane fuel, etc to make more power and they do not require a reset of the ecu to do it.

The intake and exhaust on the vtec version of the f22 are responsible for 10 out of the 15 extra hp. vtec gives you 5 out of 15 extra hp.

You could do things like adapt a ram air intake for an accord motor, get a bigger coil for a little more spark, but you get little in return.

Also, the stock internals of a F22 are very good and you can turbo it without too much worry about blowing the thing up if you properly tune it.

 

I've also come to the conclusion that I/H/E doesn't make power on Accords. Truthfully, our engines are slow-revving, low-compression, SOHC engines...and while I hear our heads do flow good, we still have 8.8:1 compression, super economy cams and tops a 6500RPM engine speed. Truthfully, if you want to see big gains, the only way to go is inside the motor- 10-11:1 compression H22 crank/rods, better cams, new management- I honestly believe that is an easy 150-160whp, or 30-40whp over stock. And that's through stock peripherals (I/H/E) too. The motors are small; the piping leading in and out doesn't make much of a difference, ESPECIALLY when there's not too much going on in the combustion chamber.

 

soo true... this motor has tons of potential but to get to it you need to work from the inside out... a subaru wrx engine is 2.0L but the reason its got power is becuase the inside is built well... if you could acomplish this your set

 

I find it interesting that nissan motors with just I/H/E will make much more hp then any honda motor. A spec-v intake will damn near give you 10-12hp at the wheels while a CAI on a honda motor may give you half.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sportyaccordy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Truthfully, our engines are slow-revving, low-compression, SOHC engines...and while I hear our heads do flow good</TD></TR></TABLE>

uhmm no f22 sohc heads are poop and dont flow for ****.

 

while you can go for higher compression, you would have to use a higher octane fuel.

It seems like a lot of people are dumping on honda motors as being low power. They are actually pretty strong compared to motors from other companies in the same displacement range

1994 figures

Toyota Camry I4 for 1994 was 125HP VS honda's 130 (base motors) Alstima has one motor good for 150hp and it was larger at 2.4L

move to 2005

Toyota Camry is 160hp versus 170 for Honda 175 for Nissan Altima.

Move to the V6 arena and Honda again makes more HP/L than Toyota or Nissan. Nissan needs a larger engine (3.5L) to make more HP and it ranges from 10 for 3.5 SE to 20 for 3.5 SE-R and not to mention the fact that Honda makes their power on 87 versus 91 octane for Toyota and Nissan. If you feed the accord motor 91 octane, you get somewhere around 265hp (according to dyno runs posted at v6accord.com).

Honda makes cars that are reliable and have good amounts of power for their displacement.

Someone mentioned about engines revving to only 6500rpm. Most American v6 cars can only rev to about 6K and a lot stop at around 5K

 

bah, you guys have no faith in the good ol' f22 power...read the newest issue of SCC...in it you will find an 17:1 f22 that revs to a rediculous 9400 rpm's, good for 341.6 hp and 247.6 lb/ft....check out the article, though...it goes step by step to build the exact motor Bisi Ezerioha uses in the insight drag car he's building...******* rediculous **** i tell you...

 

that car is insane. bisi (bisimoto) posts on here in the drag forum he had the same f22 setup mated to a d-series tranny through an adapter plate in his old CRX (nemo) that he used to race, and i heard he duplicated the setup for the insight but this yr with a few more additional "tricks" he had up his sleeves.