I'm looking for a Azenis alternative. The new Azenis are a bit overpriced quite frankly. I could just buy the old Azenis, but I'm looking for an alternative. SP 8000 and Ventus R-S2 seem to be the only tires in the ballpark of Azenis, at a 195/14 size.

What concerns me about Azenis is actually just the road noise. It is otherwise a great tire, was one of the first to buy them. I'd prefer something with less road noise, but just as capable street and track driving. Wet or all season tires is of no concern to me. But I'm always looking for the best value.

8000 seems to have mixed reviews. Tire wear and hardening seems to be an issue. also given that these tires are several years old in design.

Hankook has come out with R-S2. seemingly capable Azenis competitor. the circumferential grooves that are gapped far apart kind of bother me, for tracking concerns, and just lost potential of extra rubber. but what do i know if ive never used them.

i would like to try something else than the old azenis. but not if theyre not going to give me the same performance, then i might as well stick with Azenis while theyre still in stock.

ive done the search. just wondering if theres any more info specifically for these tires listed, or other tires in 195/14 size.

ive got two 14x6 sets of wheels i could potentially put these on.

 

So far, the verdict among autocrossers <u>seems</u> to be that the R2S Z212 is a better buy than either the RT215 or RT615, and they seem to like the handling as much or even better.

The sidewalls of the R2S Z212 appear to be softer, and people are still experimenting with air pressures to see if it's necessary to raise the pressures to reduce flexing. Right now most people are saying you do <u>not</u> have to raise the pressures as much as you might think and that they handle well with pressures in the low to mid 30's (cold). There are still a few people who raise pressures just because the tyre will feel better, even if it's not faster.

Now...

Something I'm waiting on is a rumour that the August issue of Grassroots Motorsports has an article in it that shows the RT615 a clear and away favourite, over both the RT215 and the R2S Z212. I can confirm that the article exists, but I cannot confirm the content yet.

We also haven't heard a lot from road couse users (HPDE drivers) yet. I will be on Shenandoah this Sunday with mine, but I'm not going to be pushing it so it won't be enough of a real test.

Has anybody been on track w/these things, at speed and under stress, yet?

 

Tyson,

If you're looking for an alternative to the 215 you really can't go wrong with the Z212. A few autocrossers around here did back to back tests with the 215 and Z212 and the Hankook was consistenly faster.

If RiceJ doesn't hook me up with some R-comps over the next week or two I'll be ordering a set for the track in two weeks. I WILL be pushing it hard so if you'd like to wait until then I'll give you a write-up.

 

thanks for the response.

just to be sure. the Z212 is the same as the ventus R-S2?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the Z212 is the same as the ventus R-S2?</TD></TR></TABLE>

correct... r-s2 z212

 

T1-S opinions?? about $95ea (oooh thats canadian dollars... thats like $30 each????)
http://www.1010tires.com/tire....1%2DS

T1-R new? pricey....
http://www.1010tires.com/tire....s+T1R

 

I'm curious why you didn't already get the Z212. ??

 

im just desiring to talk about tires. not buy, yet

and i only have 14" wheels (hmm except my 13" OE rims i use as my "rain/winter" tires)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So far, the verdict among autocrossers <u>seems</u> to be that the R2S Z212 is a better buy than either the RT215 or RT615, and they seem to like the handling as much or even better.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The correct name of this Hankook tire (as noted by mike c) is the Hankook R-S2 Z212.

I've heard similar comments from Todd at Frisby Tire, where they sell primarily R compound tires and trackable street tires to racers. (They go to track events on weekends to sell their tires.) He commented that the Z212 is like the Azenis in that it's a super-sticky street compound, and his former Azenis customers really like them.

It will be interesting to see how long these tires last, to see if they get more miles than the fast-wearing old Azenis, once folks start wearing them out (which will be a while, since they're new on the market). The same thing is true of the new Azenis.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">T1-S opinions??
.
.
.
T1-R new?</TD></TR></TABLE>

These are the top-of-the-line street tires from Toyo. The T1-S is being discontinued and replaced by the T1-R. You might get a good deal on the T1-S; I don't like buying tires that are discontinued, though, because if you have a problem with a tire and you can't get it replaced, you're stuck buying a new set. My impression of the T1-R (as well as the T1-S) is that it's a good street tire that is not as expensive as some other top-of-the-line street tires (e.g. S-03) but that it's not in the same super-sticky class as the Z212 or Azenis. If anyone's using them and would like to chime in, please do!

 

anyone else try the toyo t1-r's?

 

Since this topic began, we've had the benefit of the following:

- Grassroots Motorsports test in August, which showed that both the Azenis (RT-215 and RT-615) are faster in dry autocross lap times than the Hankook

- Car and Driver test in December, which showed that the Hankook did fairly well, and the Toyo T1-R isn't nearly as good as the best top-of-the-line street tires out there (they hated it)

- Price drop in the Azenis RT-615 (just a few days ago)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- Car and Driver test in December, which showed that the Hankook did fairly well, and the Toyo T1-R isn't nearly as good as the best top-of-the-line street tires out there (they hated it)

- Price drop in the Azenis RT-615 (just a few days ago)
</TD></TR></TABLE>

did they test it? huh. interesting. azenis are a tough benchmark for sure.

price drop on Z-nees

($88 for 14's still kinda high. dammit, i rememberi paid $200 SHIPPED for my rt-215)

 

The Azenis was not included in the Car and Driver Test.

Before they were replaced, the 205/50-15 RT-215 was generally selling for around $70/tire. That size of the new RT-615 is now $78/tire at Vulcan.

 

$88 was discount tires price. i guess that doesnt reflect the cost. vulcan says $64 for 14". much better...

that car and driver test also put the KD's in 10/11th place! they must have heavily weighed the wet performance test...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">$88 was discount tires price. i guess that doesnt reflect the cost. vulcan says $64 for 14". much better...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Discount Tire has free shipping, which is worth $10/tire. However, you can get hit with sales tax if you live in a state where they operate. Also, the Discount Tire price in their stores can differ from the Discount Tire Direct price to ship it to you. Gotta work the numbers...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that car and driver test also put the KD's in 10/11th place! they must have heavily weighed the wet performance test...</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can read the entire article (without the detailed graphs that appeared in print) on the C&D website here. The weights were dry performance 600, wet performance 300, price 100, tread wear rating 100. The BFG was a distant second in dry performance, a distant 10th in wet performance, 4th highest price, and tied for 8th in treadwear. They said:

BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD

Here's a tire that trades off its weaknesses on wet surfaces for outstanding performance on dry ones. The BFGoodrich g-Force gripped so ferociously in the dry that it felt almost like a race tire. It posted the highest lateral acceleration (0.95 g) on the dry skidpad, and it never placed lower than third best in the other dry tests. The g-Force rewarded aggressive driving because its grip level didn't fall off precipitously once it started sliding, as some tires do.

On a wet road, the g-Force is not so forgiving. Once you venture past the limits of adhesion and the tire begins to slide, you get a spooky feeling that resembles driving on ice, that is, you slide for a while before the tire regains grip. Geswein called the g-Force's wet-weather performance "not good" and "easy to overdrive in the wet." It finished last in two out of three wet-track tests.

This result was not a surprise because printed on the side of this tire are the letters "KD," which company employees told us stand for "killer dry." Although this tire was designed to give up some wet performance in return for dry grip, we did find a few other tires that are just as capable in the dry and a lot better in the wet.

 

well honestly, from the look of the hankook r-s2, i figured that they would be very comperable to the azenis. and the price is right too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicliveit &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well honestly, from the look of the hankook r-s2, i figured that they would be very comperable to the azenis.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The performance is not comparable to the Azenis. The two tires were included in the Grassroots Motorsports test last August, and the Azenis had significantly quicker autocross lap times; the Azenis were first of the three street tires they tested, and the Hankook was fourth. In the Car and Driver test in December, the Hankook came in eighth out of eleven tires in dry performance, and although the Azenis weren't included in that test, their dry performance is such that I'm convinced that they would have finished MUCH higher.

(You really can't judge the performance of tires by their looks, anyway.)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicliveit &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and the price is right too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The Azenis cost less than the Hankook. (In 205/50-15, the Azenis is $78/tire at Vulcan, and the Hankook is $85/tire at Discount Tire.)

Nothing wrong with the Hankook; it's a good tire at an attractive price. But when it was first introduced, it was claimed to be as good as the Azenis, at a much cheaper price. Turns out it's not as good as the Azenis, and the Azenis has come down in price.

 

wow, price difference between azenis and rs2 have come closer!

discount tire prices for 14"
azenis $73
rs2 $71

price is a wash now!



i just need to use up my old RT215!

 

The SP8000 isn't worth considering. That tire was as good as you could get in the early 1990s. Now, there are lots and lots of tires whose performance is much better in every possible way. I wouldn't consider it compared to everyday street tires like an ES100, let alone a supersticky specialty tire like the Azenis.

The price of the Azenis is almost identical to the Hankook Ventus R-S2 Z212 - I see you already posted this while I was writing this post - but the performance is significantly better. Have you seen the autocross tire test in Grassroots Motorsports, in which they compared autocross times for half a dozen street tires including the old Azenis, new Azenis, and Z212 (as well as a bunch of R compound track tires)?

IMHO, there's no reason to get the Z212 instead of the Azenis...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">discount tire prices for 14"
azenis $73
rs2 $71</TD></TR></TABLE>

Vulcan has the RT-615 in 195/60-14 for $61 plus shipping (Discount Tire includes free shipping)...

 

um so yeah. at $40 shipping for 4 tires, its still a wash.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">um so yeah. at $40 shipping for 4 tires, its still a wash.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, at $48 shipping it's a wash.

 

I have some brand new 14" RT215's I might be getting rid of in the near future. PM me if you're interested