Okay ladies and gentlemen, the swap is completed and the engine is tuned. The results are in.

244.3 whp
205.5 ft/lbs of torque

Before anybody else can say it, I am more than a little disappointed. Especially considering how much money I have in this swap. (and don't ask how much I won't answer) I obviously made some wrong assumptions somewhere, and if anybody has any suggestions PLEASE post them. However if all you want to do is bash me for my wrong decisions, please go elsewhere cause I'm already mad enough about this.

First of all I'll give you my set up.

K24A2 - Stock
Jackson Racing Supercharger
3.4" Supercharger Pulley
RC650cc injectors
AEM Cold Air
Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket
DC Sports Shorty Header
Random Technology High-Flow Cat
Borla Cat-Back Exhaust

The first wrong decision I know, and that was to go with the 3.4" S/C pulley. In this application that is only giving me around 6 psi of boost. Clearly I could use more. I didn't have much of an idea of how to figure out what I needed other than trial and error though. What made me decide on that pulley was a couple of things. Mostly because of what Nossy has done with his swap. He is running a 3.2" pulley and getting a little over 10 psi boost. He also has cams, and a race header so his motor should flow a little better. I thought that with my slightly larger pulley, and slightly more restrictive engine and exhaust that I would be around 9psi. Obviously I was wrong.

I think the engine is well tuned. Unfortunatly I was not able to be there for the tuning so I am not sure. They tuned for a 12.2 - 1 A/F ratio, and told me that they tried leaning it out some and it made no extra power. I am going to try to datalog some runs this weekend so if anybody is interested in looking at that information PM me or something and I will e-mail it to you.

If anybody has any constructive suggestions I welcome them.

 

I think maybe the sc is suffering from heatsoak which makes the numbers so low. The intercooled comptech sc might be a better way to go than the JR one.

I don't know about GA, but upgrading to a race header will more than likely increase your numbers, you might want to look into that if you don't mind the noise/smell.

What's the diam of the Borla piece? You should be running 2.5-3.0" at least.

Was it tuned on a dynojet or a Mustang?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kal &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think maybe the sc is suffering from heatsoak which makes the numbers so low. The intercooled comptech sc might be a better way to go than the JR one.

I don't know about GA, but upgrading to a race header will more than likely increase your numbers, you might want to look into that if you don't mind the noise/smell.

What's the diam of the Borla piece? You should be running 2.5-3.0" at least.

Was it tuned on a dynojet or a Mustang?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Heatsoak is a possibility. I'll have to check on that. As far as the comptech sc, to the best of my knowledge they don't make one that will fit in the EP3 engine bay. Besides which I already had the JR one.

I've thought long and hard about going with a race header, and still haven't made up my mind. I could get away with it no problem, the county I live in has no emissions inspections. I'm just not willing to run without a cat for personal reasons. That could be worked around too, just some fairly simple custom work to put in a high flow unit.

I believe the Borla exhaust is 60mm, which is right at 2.5 inches, but I'll have to measure it to be sure.

Tuned on a dynapack.

 

I suggested the comptech one because they're developing an intercooler, but if it doesn't fit, then nevermind.

60mm is around 2.37"
your exhaust is kinda restrictive, I would sell it and go get a custom exhaust.

Edit:
you might also want to look into some kinda SRI/box setup. shorter intake tubing is better for superchargers.


Modified by Kal at 11:42 AM 5/27/2005

 

pix

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LucidMoments &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've thought long and hard about going with a race header, and still haven't made up my mind. I could get away with it no problem, the county I live in has no emissions inspections. I'm just not willing to run without a cat for personal reasons. That could be worked around too, just some fairly simple custom work to put in a high flow unit.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've always admired your stand on refusing to run a cat, and I'm in complete agreement with you. One of the reasons I ordered up the Greddy turbo kit was because I knew the downpipe for it was designed with keeping a cat. And in all honesty, the difference between a high flow cat and no cat isn't that big at all... esp. considering how much power I think you were hoping to make.

Have you been in contact with Nossy at all to ask him for some advice? Keep us posted.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiR Phil &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've always admired your stand on refusing to run a cat, and I'm in complete agreement with you. One of the reasons I ordered up the Greddy turbo kit was because I knew the downpipe for it was designed with keeping a cat. And in all honesty, the difference between a high flow cat and no cat isn't that big at all... esp. considering how much power I think you were hoping to make.

Have you been in contact with Nossy at all to ask him for some advice? Keep us posted.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks Phil, I appreciate it. I haven't been in touch with Nossy yet, but will send him a PM and point him to one of my threads.

The way my thinking is running now is that I will wait until IPS has their forced induction cams out, and do that and either a smaller sc pulley, or bigger crank pulley at the same time. The good thing about that is that it will be a while and will allow my funding to recover some from doing the swap

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by special ed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">pix</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll try to get some pics up this weekend, and a copy of the dyno sheet as well. I don't have a digicam, but I know a couple of people that do so I should be able to manage it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kal &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I suggested the comptech one because they're developing an intercooler, but if it doesn't fit, then nevermind.
60mm is around 2.37"
your exhaust is kinda restrictive, I would sell it and go get a custom exhaust.

Edit:
you might also want to look into some kinda SRI/box setup. shorter intake tubing is better for superchargers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would kill for an intercooler, but a lot of people have looked at the possibility and I just doen't think it will happen

If I go for a custom exhaust I'm going to go whole hog and have Hytech fab me up a customer race header that includes a cat and full exhaust. Its something I've thought about, but I have no idea how much it would cost. I'll investigate and let everybody know. It will be a while before anything happens though. See my remarks on funding above

Thanks again everybody for the ideas and keep them coming.

 

Although I dont have any fresh ideas to offer about the numbers, how does the car drive? I mean what is the power curve like? That tourqe number is not bad from any Honda engine, I also agree that opening up the exhaust may really help.

 

considering your only running at 6psi your numbers are pretty good.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by giff74 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Although I dont have any fresh ideas to offer about the numbers, how does the car drive? I mean what is the power curve like? That tourqe number is not bad from any Honda engine, I also agree that opening up the exhaust may really help.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The car is a blast to drive. The torque curve is nice and fat, and it just keeps pulling all the way to redline. There is probably a little more power to be had with higher revs, but I don't feel comfortable revving this motor very high. Right now the rev-limiter is set at 7100.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by whiteDCfiver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">considering your only running at 6psi your numbers are pretty good.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My whole problem I was looking for more than 6psi. I've learned some interesting things about the stock TSX cams. Look for my thread on this swap over on EPhatch and check out the posts by Hondata.

 

From my understanding, Jackson Racing makes roots blowers. They are great for low end grunt, but the thermal efficiency of a roots type SC is much lower than say a centrifugal or twin-screw. Are you intercooled?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000blackone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From my understanding, Jackson Racing makes roots blowers. They are great for low end grunt, but the thermal efficiency of a roots type SC is much lower than say a centrifugal or twin-screw. Are you intercooled?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, JR make roots blowers. They are actually based on a modified Eaton Group blower. You are also right about their thermal efficiency. All I am looking for is around 9psi tops and the blower should be good for that. Unfortunately there is no way to intercool a supercharger in the EP3. Not without some MAJOR modification of the engine bay anyway.

 

I read the book "supercharged" by Corky Bell. In it, he writes that anything above 5psi from a non-ICed roots setup is a huge waste of boost and intake temps are dangerously high. I think you're making good power given the situation. A car that light should scoot with 244whp.

 

i don't think those numbers are all that bad man. i would think you have a pertty awesome torque curve with a k24 and the supercharger. imo, that is probably more important than max hp, esp for everyday driving since you'll have real useable power throughout the whole rpm range. i drive a 01 celica gts, and one of my few compliants about the car is that i really have to rev it up there and get it into lift to have any fun with it. good luck with future tuning/mods i'm sure that car is a blast to drive

i think if you just take the time to plan things out, you shouldnt have too much trouble coming up with a way to incorporate an intercooler into your setup. i think if you did that and slapped on a different pully to up the boost, you'd get that extra power you were looking for. gl

 

any pics ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iROCKtheSOHC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">any pics ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm working on pics. The weather has been really crappy here so it may take a few more days.