We bled the brakes a 2nd time yesterday. Actually, this time it was a full system flush. The mushiness has not gone away. I'm not sure what the heck is going on now. We followed the order as specified in the Helms manual, but even that shouldn't wholly matter. (LF, RF, RR, LR)

I can't imagine there being anything wrong with the master cylinder. It's not like I pump the brakes a few times, the pedal hardens, and then goes away. It's soft all the time.

In 5 years of driving, and many, many brake bleeds, this is the first time I ever. I guess I'm confused and not sure what else to do. I hate the pedal feel right now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fso_BamBam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In 5 years of driving, and many, many brake bleeds, this is the first time I ever. I guess I'm confused and not sure what else to do. I hate the pedal feel right now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know exactly how you feel. I'm assuming, that they got soft after a track event?

I'm convinced that brake pads can develop some level of mushiness on their own. Either because they warp, or because a big chunk of pad material is missing, or they're glazed and it just takes more force to work. My last set of pads lost half of the pad material on one of the inside front pads, and they felt pretty mushy even though the brake fluid was fine.

Do try replacing the front pads with "known good" pads. OEM or otherwise should work. I bet that will help the pedal feel.

Also, at least, take off your front pads and see what they look like.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I know exactly how you feel. I'm assuming, that they got soft after a track event?

I'm convinced that brake pads can develop some level of mushiness on their own. Either because they warp, or because a big chunk of pad material is missing, or they're glazed and it just takes more force to work. My last set of pads lost half of the pad material on one of the inside front pads, and they felt pretty mushy even though the brake fluid was fine.

Do try replacing the front pads with "known good" pads. OEM or otherwise should work. I bet that will help the pedal feel.

Also, at least, take off your front pads and see what they look like.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

An excellent idea. From the outside, they look good, so I never thought about the pads. In fact, at the Expo, I will most likely replace the pads/rotors for the front, and maybe that will do the trick.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fso_BamBam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> It's soft all the time.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is it firm when the ignition is off?

 

you're boiling your fluid - take off the heat shields at least

this was a perennial problem for me with the stock R brakes/rotors

since I switched to thicker rotors (more heat sink) and NSX calipers --&gt; no more mushy pedal EVAR

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fso_BamBam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We bled the brakes a 2nd time yesterday. Actually, this time it was a full system flush. The mushiness has not gone away.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you're boiling your fluid - take off the heat shields at least</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did j00 read his post, or just the title?

-Chris

 

Its crazy, cause I have this same problem...im curious to find the resolution as well..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MinorityGreg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its crazy, cause I have this same problem...im curious to find the resolution as well.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What he said

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Is it firm when the ignition is off?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

do you have ss lines? there possibly might be a hairpin hole leaking fluid. that's just me guessing worst case. hope you figure things out.

 

Just something I do which may or may not make a difference. I always bleed my brakes with the ignition energized and &lt;knock on wood&gt; I have a very firm pedal after 5 or 6 brake fluid flushes now.

The GTI and F-body guys always recommend this so I just do it with my ITR too, they claim it has something to do with the ABS systems and getting that flushed as well. YMMV

 

MC brace makes a big difference

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tweakmeister &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">MC brace makes a big difference </TD></TR></TABLE>

Does it? I just got one, I'll put it on and see if it helps out.

 

I had mushy brakes (long brake travel) when I first had my 5-lug conversion (brakes, lines, master cylinder, booster) installed. The mechanic told me it will go away after it breaks in, and sure enough, it did. If you just did some modification to your brakes, or changed the brake fluid, try waiting a couple weeks to see if the mushiness will go away.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EricUSC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had mushy brakes (long brake travel) when I first had my 5-lug conversion (brakes, lines, master cylinder, booster) installed. The mechanic told me it will go away after it breaks in, and sure enough, it did. If you just did some modification to your brakes, or changed the brake fluid, try waiting a couple weeks to see if the mushiness will go away.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What exactly is supposed to break-in in that list?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tweakmeister &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">MC brace makes a big difference </TD></TR></TABLE>


It does - but it doesn't help at all with teh post-track day mushiness

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


It does - but it doesn't help at all with teh post-track day mushiness</TD></TR></TABLE>

Or the pre-track day bad bleed.

 

i think he was referring to bedding the pads..
are the pads bedded?

 

Well, interesting that someone mentioned SS lines. This actually started to happen after we put in the rear SS lines. I see no reason why this is related, but when I had the front SS lines and stock rears, I had no problems. Then, we finally found the time and completed the rears one day, and it's been mushy ever since.

I'll have to check and see if the pedal is firm with the ignition off. IIRC, it is. What does that mean?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fso_BamBam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, interesting that someone mentioned SS lines. This actually started to happen after we put in the rear SS lines.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did you try bleeding the rears again? Would that make it a 3rd time?

-Chris

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Did you try bleeding the rears again? Would that make it a 3rd time?

-Chris</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe third time will be the charm. Plan at the Expo, most likely on Friday:

1. Replace rotors
2. Replace pads
3. Bleed brakes, again, 3rd time in about a month.

That should do it, hopefully.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fso_BamBam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, interesting that someone mentioned SS lines. This actually started to happen after we put in the rear SS lines. I see no reason why this is related, but when I had the front SS lines and stock rears, I had no problems. Then, we finally found the time and completed the rears one day, and it's been mushy ever since.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The only reason I could imagine the rear ss lines affecting the brake pedal is if air got trapped inside the lines during the swap and did not get bled out even after whatever many bleeds you did.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fso_BamBam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll have to check and see if the pedal is firm with the ignition off. IIRC, it is. What does that mean? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sign of the booster going bad.

Check everywhere for leaks. Near the MC, the booster, all the SS line fittings. It took ma about 5 good bleeds to get a firm feel back when we did my SS lines.

Rebleed the system as many times as neccessary till the pedal is firm.

I never followed the bleed with ignition on, (not that I wouldn't try it though) but I have had air trapped in the system which totally sucks. Especially on track.

Follow the proper bleed sequence, and when the nut on the wrench at the bleeder is opening and closing it, have him only open it enough to get a flow but still maintaining pressure on the pedal. Meaning that the other nut on the pedal can't just floor the pedal since there is pressure.

A Master Cylinder brace is Not a cure for a mushy or sinking pedal. But when the system is air free, a MC brace can provide a firmer overall feel.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only reason I could imagine the rear ss lines affecting the brake pedal is if air got trapped inside the lines during the swap and did not get bled out even after whatever many bleeds you did.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I sucked air into the m/c when bleeding last year sometime... didn't have enough brake fluid in the reservoir. It took a full flush, plus a couple bleedings, plus another flush to get it 'mostly good'.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm convinced that brake pads can develop some level of mushiness on their own. Either because they warp, or because a big chunk of pad material is missing, or they're glazed and it just takes more force to work. My last set of pads lost half of the pad material on one of the inside front pads, and they felt pretty mushy even though the brake fluid was fine.

Do try replacing the front pads with "known good" pads. OEM or otherwise should work. I bet that will help the pedal feel.

Also, at least, take off your front pads and see what they look like.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've had a mushy pedal for a long time on my ITR. I would bleed by brakes after every event but it would still be mushy.

My pads started to wear down so replaced them. The pedal surprisingly got a lot firmer as a result.

 

I got that mooshy feel too... I re-bled and they were good to go.