So since there can't be a week that goes by in the T4 // SFWD Class without some
drama here is the latest drama from this weekends NHRA SFWD competition.

I am going to try and write this up as unbiasedly and clearly as possible based
on first hand conversations involved in only and let the discussion begin from there.

We had been running the M&H 25x8.7x13 tire on our car for all the NHRA events this year and hadn't quite got them figured out to get the car down the track as well as we would like. After Ballard's misfortune in 1st round qualifying he offered
for us to use his Mickey Thompson 24.5x9x13 slicks for 3rd round qualifying to see
if they would help our issues at all. We got them put on the car and right off the bat found a setup that works to get the car down the track and decided to leave them on the car for the remainder of the event.

1st round elminations we had a bye so we tried a couple of things out with the car
to see if we could get it any quicker. In between 1st and 2nd round eliminations
Hector (aggressivemotorsports, owner of the car Felix is driving) and JR from Gardella Racing come over to our pits to check out our rear DOT Skinnies that we have on the car to get the size so they could potentially order a set for their car, in the midst of us chatting JR happened to look at the 24.5x9x13 Mickey Thompsons and i mentioned that we pulled a 1.59 60' time on them in 3rd round qualifying the night before and then jokingly followed up with yeah they are a "w" tire just screwing around with him, JR understood this but apparently Hector thought i was serious.

2nd round elminations come around and we are facing Felix and we lose, no excuses, we just got beat although Ferguson did pull a 1.60 60' time. We get back to the pits and start packing things up and pull the tires off the car to give back to Ballard. Felix has to face Joe Simpson in the semifinals and us, ballard, and Joe were all talking in the pits and Joe said something about the slicks on his car being old and worn down so Ballard offered Joe the use of the 24.5x9x13 Mickey Thompson's that we had been running. Joe accepted and proceeded to
put them on his car for the next round. Staged up and ready to go Joe spanked Felix as Felix had a mechanical issue going down the track. Joe pulled a 1.60 60' time on the 24.5x9x13 Mickey Thompson's as well against Felix.

At the top end of the track going onto the scales Felix protests Joe's tires saying they are too wide. By the NHRA rule book the information stated is that the maximum allowable tire size in Sport FWD is 25x9x13, the mickey thompson obviously being within those specs. I am not 100% sure what NHRA
official was at the top end of the track handling the protest but they proceeded to air the tires down to 6 psi and measure the treadwidth with it coming out to a little over 10" and they DQ Joe Simpson. We are all confused as hell this just didn't make any sense to us the tire clearly states that it is a 24.5x9x13 on the sidewall and as Jason Hunt is speaking with the official the NHRA official says you could pay Mickey Thompson to put anything you want to on the the sidewall of the tire. So through some more arguing the officials ask Felix to bring his car down to measure the treadwidth of the M&H 25x8.7x13 tire he is running, aired down to 6 psi it measures out to 9.5" treadwidth so he is DQ'ed as well. We are
all still in disbelief that this is happening, the M&H 25x8.7x13 and Mickey Thompson 24.5x9x13 are the standard tire sizes that the majority of the class has been competing on for the last 2-3 years and they have both been called illegal to run. The finals are coming and with Joe and Felix both dq'ed the other finalist would have a bye to the win. Standing around in the pits we see Felix pull his car into the staging lanes to run in the final round, all confused Ballard calls him over and Felix informs us that they are going to allow him to run on his "illegal" 25x8.7x13 M&H tire saying that one of the NHRA officials found a variance in the rule book that would allow Felix to continue on his tire that is over
their measurements but still DQ Joe Simpson on his "illegal" tire.

Felix was allowed to run and won the event.

Here is the recap as I see it in my opinion:

in the NHRA rules it does not state how the tire is to be measured to determine the maximum allowable width for the class - by the manufacturer specs both tires are within specs and although i have not measured them yet myself to be sure at say 20-25 psi the tires are most likely within the specs NHRA has stated....NHRA has decided that to get the exact tire width they will be measured with 6 psi of air pressure with everyone knowing that obviously the tire will have a wider contact patch with low air pressure, NHRA technically initially DQ'ed both drivers for the tire they were running and then for some reason Felix was then allowed to run on his tire that was obviously over the tire size limits as stated in the rule
book and measured by their method. Does this mean since they tires will be measured with 6 psi of air pressure in them we can run 26" or even 28" tires now? cause when they are aired down to 6 psi i bet they are only 25" tall too...so i am still utterly confused and hopefully someone from the NHRA will get this
straightened out ASAP.

James Innes

 

Wow! Seems to me that they were measured in-correctly. They should be inflated and then measured.

Just doesn't make sense...

 

dam thats crazy...I'm speechless

 

I must say that's the most I've ever seen James Innes write. Hopefully NHRA will clear this up? We're halfway through the season now and the same tires have been raced on (and won on).

 

my car is the car that was DQ'ed. when my tires were inflated and did the wet footprint test (the 24.5x9x13) they measured LESS than 9 inch contact patch. obviously with less air it was a greater contact patch.

my biggest problem with the whole thing is that as we were mounting Brians 24x9's onto my car, brian was asked if they could borrow his slicks as well. they were being put onto my car at the time and i ended up using them for the pass, so obviously they were not able to borrow them. then even after they asked to use them, they still complained and got themselves and me disqualified. then somehow since they were less illegal than i was when messured with low tire pressure they were some how let back into the race. if we both would have been DQ'ed i wouldnt be nearly as upset. no matter which way you look at it, its not fair. especially since my tires measured in with less than a 9 inch contact patch when inflated with air. even things such as the weight of the vehicle (my coupe is heavy) will effect how much the tire squats at any given tire pressure.

NOBODY, including the track officials and the NHRA officals were sure of the rule. when my car passed the inflated tire test, i was told that it was OK and i was not DQ'ed. then somebody else said that it had to be test as it was ran down the track. and this went back and forth for atleast an hour. Everybody who was there for the debate nearly had a heart attack when we were told that Mickey Thompson will put whatever we want on the side of the tire if we pay them enough money. If i remember correctly from Jason, this set of tires was purchased from Speed Unlimited, a local shop here that has everything in stock. just normal off the shelf stuff, so anybody could have very easily gotten their hands on these.

As stated above my 25x8.7x13's are worn out (2 seasons old) and i need new tires. the way it sits right now every tire is illegal, except for a 8 inch wide tire mounted on a 15 inch rim. who uses that? does the whole class have to buy new wheels/tires now? what am i supposed to buy now? can we use a 26 inch tall tire b/c with 6psi of air in it, its going to probably sit at less than 25 inches tall.

and since air pressure, car weight, etc has a direct relation to the contact patch, are they going to do a wet contact patch test after every single pass in the SPFWD class?? absolutely not. they are going to have to permit certain tires for Sport FWD, and im willing to bet that mickey thompson will make sure that their tire remains legal for the class, which it absolutely should. so whats going to happen then is that i will get completely screwed for this race, and the tires that i was DQ'ed on will become legal and i will be the only person to see the negative side effects of this drama.

 

Approved tire list seems the only way to go.

 

The M&H 8.7/25-13 x 6-psi x 1700 to 2500 pound race car = smashing the sidewall down making the contact patch larger then a 8.7. If you take the wheel and tire off the race car it will measure out to be a 8.7/25-13.

John@M&H-Hashims

 

See some input from a man that makes the tires. to JOHN

 

i just mounted a set of 24.5x8x13 MT tire onto my car and measured the contact patch at 8 psi of air..........looks like in order to be legal we will have to run a 7 inch wide tire because the 8 inch wide tire...just like the 9 inch wide tire....at that low of an air pressure spreads out just a little bit more than an inch.

 

JAMES.....ITS 10 SECOND DAMIAN

NOPI JUNE 4-5 ARE THEY ALSO REQUIRING 25-9-13?????

 

Where is NHRA? I'm fairly sure people want answers! This is the most exciting class and most competitive in NHRA. People need answers as this recent turn of events contradicts the tire sizes that have been used for several seasons in this class.

An approved tire would be a good alternative to be used. Also the rule book should state in more detail about tire testing to eliminate further conflicts.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by miamidamian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">JAMES.....ITS 10 SECOND DAMIAN

NOPI JUNE 4-5 ARE THEY ALSO REQUIRING 25-9-13?????</TD></TR></TABLE>

there is no tire limit size for the NDRA event - read the rulebook slackass

 

Even mickey thompson states on their website that the tires are measured cold at 10psi.

 

wow that sounds like bullshit to me! The DQs were bad enough but the fact that they "re-qualified" one guy whose tire was over 9" just doesn't make sense. Like someone else said, I hope we see an explanation of that action from someone with the NHRA...

 

do you still have to put up money for a protest? or did NHRA elect. to do this themselves after it was brought to attention..?

 

Well I am looking here again and still do not see anything about measuring at 6 psi, or any other psi for that matter:


http://www.nhrasportcompact.co...s.pdf


Here is the link to the Mickey Thompson website. Look at the bottom and it states that all measurments are done at 10 psi cold to be within 1"


http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip.html


How can you do a "cold" test at the top end of the track when you just got done heating up and expanding the slicks? Not really understanding that one. Tech official should of gone to the pits with the car, pulled the slicks off and taken and measured when cold.

Hope Javier or someone chims in on this one. I would like some clarification also.

Jason

 

It sounds as though there is some real drama in regards to the SFWD class. I would like to know (as well as everyone else) why one racer was able to compete again in the race. I have nothing against either of you as we are all racers competing for one common goal. Both of the cars in question are running really well as I have been watching them for some time. It does not seem fair that the tires you guys are using are both deemed illegal when most of the class has been running them for quite a while now.

 

The only reason i said something to nhra about the tire is because fergusons boy said something about the tire being a W.all i wanted them to do is check to see if it was indeed a W.and that was early on in the day ,i didnt intend for it to go that far,i thought they would check for a W and if no W leave it alone,if indeed i knew he was joking i would of never said anything,hell i even thought they forgot about it,when the coupe won that round,i was on the trailer ready to go home,and i told felix (today was there day)i didnt expect them to get caught up in the middle of it all.if he would of never offered "his tires" they would not have gotten caught up in the mix.and we were being sarcastic when we asked to use the tires cause we seen joe putting them on,
yous guys are acting like we went and told as soon as we lost that round it was nothing like that,like i said it was earlier on in the day.Felix never said nothing to the officials at the end of the track,by the time he got to the end joe was already gone.
You think i like telling everyone i won a wally on a technicality,if so you are wrong,i am a straight up guy i like winning straight up.I cant help the outcome that happened.

From what i was told they use the wet test system on the procars,allowing 3/4 of an inch over the requirment when at a certain psi mine measured in at 9.5 meaning im over by a 1/2 inch therefore im within the requirment,Brians measured in at 10.2 meaning he is over by almost an 1 1/4 inches.
It's not my system,i didnt mean for all this to happen.

An apology goes out to Joe,this wasnt intended the way it happended.

 

Thanks for the post and clearing up the chain of events.

Sounds silly if it is truly a 24.5x9

 

somethign else that may factor into the equation also is that the 24.5X9s were on a 8.5" rim, not the usual 8" that most are running.

 

Sounds like NHRA needs to get their rules and procedures cleared up before their biggest class ends up a 2 car field like the rest of em.

I could air down some 175/70/13 Coopers enough to ride on the sidewall and be over the limits, that doesn't mean thats the useable tread.

 

wow.. someone from nhra please clarify, or give this man a wally too! are the nhra techs local to each track?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XXXRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">somethign else that may factor into the equation also is that the 24.5X9s were on a 8.5" rim, not the usual 8" that most are running. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thats a good point, but i am suprised they don't have a laid out system to how a tire is checked, and even more suprising is how this issue hasn't come up measuring another tire, unless this is the first time they have done a tire check in nhra sport compact? can this be????? unfortunatly it sounds like it

 

Like John said before lets not forget weight of the car to plays a roll.

 

thats exactly why there has to be a guidline set in the rules