I would like pics of where and how you guys mounted your harnesses!

 

here's S&M's stuff.. http://www.sandmracing.com/srollbar.html and http://www.sandmracing.com/ssabelt.html


[Modified by Type Goch, 11:06 PM 2/4/2002]

 

The harnesses are going on on thursday, hopefully pics & details by the weekend.

 

Sub belt mounted to factory front seat mounts, maybe I'll change this.
Outer lap belt on eye-bolt in factory lap belt hole.
Inner lap belt on eye-bolt in drilled exhaust tunnel hole with backup plate.
Shoulder straps on roll bar

A search for "harness" should turn up more pictures than you want to look at.

 

left lap belt = stock location
right lap belt = drilled into the tranny tunnel w/a bracket underneath the car
shoulder belts = criss crossed in the back and mounted to rear seat belt mounts

yshi - who knows NOT to use this at the track w/o a bar or cage....

 

I would just prefer not to have to buy a harness bar or roll bar, can they be mounted safely?

 

Here are two pictures which shows how I have my lap belts attached.






Here is a picture which shows how I have the anti-sub strap attached.



This information came from http://integra.vtec.net/geeser/belts.html


Here is a picture which shows how the shoulder belts are attached. Disclaimer: I'm aware that there is risk associated with using harnesses on the track without the use of a roll bar or cage. Also I'm not advocating the setup for open track event. Although this setup should be fine for autox events. One last thing...I will be installing a roll bar before using this setup on the track again.




[Modified by BSQ, 8:48 AM 2/5/2002]


[Modified by BSQ, 12:59 PM 2/5/2002]

 

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I think it's unfortunate that this thread contains two "disclaimers," the phrase "should be fine," and someone hoping not to need a harness bar or roll bar.

I appreciate the fact that we all take risks. If we didn't, we wouldn't compete at all. However, the installation of a harness is a safety item, not a performance upgrade. I had my shoulder belts mounted to the rear seatbelt mounts for one day while the rollbar was being painted, and I was scared out of my mind racing that way (I could hardly concentrate on anything else). Let's be honest, the OEM belts are fine for SOLO competition, and the added support of a harness on only a side effect to their real purpose...safety. If you (anyone, nobody specific) don't, can't, or won't mount a harness the way it was intended, you're just asking for trouble, and nobody on HT want's to see anyone else on HT get hurt for something as stupid as this.

Normally I keep my mouth shut about topics like this because people jump all over them with "safety first" comments, but it seems like this question comes up at least evey other week and it's not a trivial one.

Again, this is not to attack anyones setup in this thread, and I agree that they "should be fine" for SOLO events. That doesn't mean your life isn't worth the extra money and effort of doing it right. You NEVER know what's going to happen when you race. S**T happens.

 

ITR#231 I appreciate your comments (each of them have validity) and I understand were you are coming from. But I would just like to clarify my "disclaimer" a little further. I know that a lot of people on this board autox and I personally feel that this is an acceptable method of mounting harnesses for autox. Since the speeds are much lower in autox, as compared to track events, the "risk" is lower. Now that is not to say that something unexpected (eg. roll over) couldn't happen in autox, but the likelyhood is far less.

My personal reason for using 5-point harnesses on the track was and is for safety. I wanted and still want the added safety incase of a frontal impact. At the time, I had read several concerns about spinal compression if the shoulder harnessed were mounted at an angle less than 45 degrees, so this is the reason that I chose a harness bar. So you can see that I was eliminating a "risk" by mounting the harnesses in this manner.

Now for the last two summers I have been using the harness bar with my 5-pt harnesses. And in that time, my driving skills have improved greatly and subsequently my speed has increased. Therefore, I personally feel that there is a greater "risk" of something unexpected happening. This along with several posts that I have read in the past about rollovers occuring at track events, have prompted me to install a roll bar in my car. This is why I stated that I didn't advocate using this setup on a track (ie. road course). Now, I did take a "risk" by using this on the track, this is the reason that I made the disclaimer.

 

i'm confused whether or not you have a roll bar in your car now, and what "risk" you were avoiding with the harness bar..... actually...... i'm just plain confused why you would ever put your car on track with a 5 point harness and a harness bar..... just a plain bad idea, period. not to offend, like i usually try to do....

D

 

While I would agree that there's much less chance of rollover during AutoX, a rollbar is for that slim chance, not the safe times. Like D, not a flame, just want as many living R pilots as possible

 

Hey BSQ .. I am glad to hear you are getting at least a roll bar.

I really wish people would stop advocating mounting harnesses in ways that are 100x more dangerous then a OE setup. It is fine if you don't care about your life, but please don't tell people that the setup pictured above is for added safty.

First off, you have your harnesses mounted to a bar, which is held in place by two bolts. You have just added a big leaver arm and multiplied the force on those bolts by its length.

Second, harnesses strech under force. So will that bar and bolts. Notice when harnesses are mounted on roll bars/cags, how short they are. Your setup is at least 4x the distance, meaning probably 4x more streaching.

If you were to cake up on a wall at 100+ MPH, if the bar didn't break and clunk you in the head, I would bet the harness would strech enough to put you in the steering wheel or worse.

 

WHOaaaaa

 

SPiFF, I appreciate your comments. But don't take it the wrong way but, I have a few comments in regards to yours.


This is not true. Now if the bar was only attached to one attachement point, then it would be a big lever arm. But since the harness bar is attached to two point there is no increase in force on the bolts or mounting points. As I see it, the harness bar is no different that the bar that is on a roll cage to which the harnesses are attached. Would you agree or disagree?


I agree that harnesses will stretch under force (they are supposed to). The bar and the bolts will not stretch, but a force will be exerted upon the them. Once again, this is no different than what happens to the bar on a roll bar/cage. I would also agree that ideally the harnesses lengths should be as short as possible. But have you noticed that professional rally cars driver's harness are nearly the same length as mine? The stretch factor must not be that great. If it was, I wouldn't think that you would see harnesses offered in this length.


Now I can guarantee that if I stuff my car into a wall at 100+ MPH with the stock seat belts that I will touch the steering wheel. I could more than likely check the oil level because the engine will be in my lap. My harness bar is made with 1.25" diameter steel tubing with a wall thickness of of 3/16". The bar welded to the steel endplates, which are made from 1/4" steel. And the harness bar is attached with grade-8 bolts. So I confident that the harness bar will not break.


Now please do not take my comments to mean that I do not agree with the comments and concerns that everyone has expressed. I fully agree with a lot of which has been said and I totally agree that everyone needs to listen to what has been said for there own safety. Good day!!!

 

I can't really tell from your pics how strong that bar is, but the harness bar design on my bar is pretty bullet-proof.



Tubing is 1 3/4", and the mounting ends are solid steel (the part where the bolt goes through. Also note the curved design, not a straight bar.

BSQ,

I found this quote on the web page you got your pics from:

"Most cars today are designed with strong passenger compartments for just this reason. While the front and rear are designed to crumple in an impact, the passenger compartment is designed to stay intact... and this is without a rollbar. I'll say it again... if you don't think your car could handle a roll without caving in, are you really sure you want to race or even drive hard in this car? (If you have a convertible, you should have a rollbar already.)"

That just strikes me as funny. Does anyone race a car who can say for sure that their roof won't cave in? I don't think so.

-231, who wishes he had one of those "MODERN" racecars with the solid roof, so he could ditch the Autopower bar


[Modified by ITR#231, 9:26 PM 2/6/2002]

 

Did the saturn roll over all the way??? lol putting a family car where its not supposed to be lol, but yea my personal opionin is that i'm not putting the harness in till i have a harnness bar atleast if not a full roll bar. to worried about the spine compression but major whiplass since about the only thing not secured is your head. I've been in a collision with a 4 point harness on, it was mounted in a jeep and attached right over the head rest to the roll bar and in stock hole locations and it held me right to that seat, they work but they have to be attached right not halfassed.

 

No.

 

booo

 

BTW, since this thread seems to have hung around, here are the pics you were asking for...might as well post them:





My outer mounts look just like BSQ's.

 

Damn, I'll be surprised if you don't lose some percentage points for that moronic comment. Joking about others crashing is never humorous.

 

If i recall correctly, the saturn was running in stock class, but on super-sticky tires...and the driver was good, he caught the tilt before it became a roll. Your average enthusiast would probably have gone 50/50 either way...Tomorrow my stuff goes in, will probably look very much like ITR#231's setup. (But in black!)

 

What backing plates did you use for the exhaust tunnel? The racerwholesale ones?

 

Yes. You have to place the holes carefully, since there is only a small space on the underneath side of the car that will fit the whole size of the backup plate. Any more front, back, up, or down, and you'll have to shave something. I'm sorry I don't have any pics, and I won't be getting any, since the plate is hidden by both the heat shield and the b-pipe.

 

I should be able to get some good pics, the car will be up on a nice hydraulic lift. Thx for headsup on tight quarters, i'll aim those holes well, not that I don't enjoy drilling random holes in the car i pay for every month and will be for a while

 

LOL, yup...holes rock!

When you get the heat shield off, you'll see exactly where I'm talking about. There's just a nice, flat spot that's just right for a backup plate, and everything else is all screwy. If I ever have my b-pipe off again, I'll snap some pics if you don't.