Howdy all,

I'm new to this board, but I have some prior Honda experience. I used to own a 91 CRX Si which I autocrossed extensively, and also did some open track events and drag racing in the mid-90's. Great car, I miss it.

Anyways, I am contemplating buying an EF Civic hatch as a daily beater and project car. I have found one that meets my needs and is super cheap, but it has a problem.

It's got the yucky base-model 4-speed manual tranny. And it grinds a bit shifting into 3rd.

I am contemplating a 5-speed swap. Question: Has anyone done this, and what is involved? Do any parts need to be swapped besides the tranny itself?

Yes, I did a search, but could not seem to come up with anything. Can anyone shed light on this question? I'd like to know before I decide to buy the car.

Also, this car has the 16-valve 1.5L engine. I thought this engine only came in the DX with the 5-speed. I though that all the 4-speed base-model EF Civic hatches also had the weaknut 1.5L 8-valve ~75 hp engine. Can anyone shed some light on this?

TIA!

 

if you just wanna change to a 5-speed, you can get a si tranny from the same generation and it will be a direct swap(take the 4-speed out, put the 5-speed in)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hatchinprogress &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(take the 4-speed out, put the 5-speed in </TD></TR></TABLE>

"and you shake it all about"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Brownjd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

"and you shake it all about"</TD></TR></TABLE> thats the best part

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Brownjd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

"and you shake it all about"</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do I have to do the Hokey Pokey?

No, really, is that all there is to it? Axles, shifter linkage, etc. is all the same?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carguychris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Do I have to do the Hokey Pokey?

No, really, is that all there is to it? Axles, shifter linkage, etc. is all the same?</TD></TR></TABLE> yes everything will work for the swap (as long as you plan on keeping the d-series motor.....if you end up going to a b-series you will have to get different parts)

 

don't foget to change the oil seals while your at it, and the clutch if need be(may as well even if it's not real bad)

 

no, the axels are not the same and neither are the knuckles/hubs. you either need to make hybrid axels using a si in and std outer, or get si knuckles/hubs and use si axels.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drewthomas14 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no, the axels are not the same and neither are the knuckles/hubs. you either need to make hybrid axels using a si in and std outer, or get si knuckles/hubs and use si axels. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Axles and knuckles are different. But you can keep four speed axles and knuckles if you swap in a five speed transmission.

 

any different wring or anything?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tangerinebeast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">any different wring or anything?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no, everything will plug right up like it is now

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Axles and knuckles are different. But you can keep four speed axles and knuckles if you swap in a five speed transmission.</TD></TR></TABLE>

OK, let me make sure I've got this straight. I think I worded things in a confusing way whan I asked if the 5-speed drivetrain was "all the same".

Are these statements correct?

1) The Si axles, knuckles and hubs are different than the 4-speed pieces. If I want to use Si knuckles and hubs, I would have to use Si axles or construct "hybrid" axles.

2) The inside end of the 4-speed axles will fit into a 5-speed tranny. I could keep the stock 4-speed axles, knuckles and hubs and simply bolt in the 5-speed tranny WITHOUT having to swap all of the Si parts with it.

Yes, no, maybe...?

Also, if the Si parts ARE different, why is that? Does the Si have bigger brakes and/or stronger hubs than the regular Civic? I thought that the only EF Civic with the "light duty" brakes, hubs and axles was the CRX HF. Of course, it's been a while and I could be dead wrong.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carguychris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, this car has the 16-valve 1.5L engine. I thought this engine only came in the DX with the 5-speed. I though that all the 4-speed base-model EF Civic hatches also had the weaknut 1.5L 8-valve ~75 hp engine. Can anyone shed some light on this?</TD></TR></TABLE>

4sp came with 70hp 16v engine.
get a si cam and dx ecu.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SloS13 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about a 4 door 88-91 sedan? I've seen one in a junkyard that has a 5speed (or at least a 5speed OEM shift ****).

Would that be a direct fit, or would the stock axles not work?</TD></TR></TABLE>

4sp axles will work.
Dx and Lx models have a diff tranny than the Ex (which is the same as the si).
Sedans did not come with a 4sp.

 

As far as trannies are concerned, could you keep your std axles/hubs/knuckes for a sohc zc swap? (given you have a zc tranny)

 

yes u can it is verry simple all you have to swap tranny find the same gen even some other gens will work.

 

Listen up - you can use all your current parts (axles, knuckles... blah blah blah).
You are NOT changing axles so don't worry about them.
The axles WILL plug right into your "new" tranny so obviously you do NOT need to be changing knuckles/hubs.

The only tanny that would be an issue are the ZC tranny's because they have a big asle end that goes into the tranny (B-series sized).

If you are not putting a ZC tranny in then you have nothing to worry about.

You may or may not have to deal with issues with the clutch/flywheel.
I'm not positive on the years, but I think the 88 and 89 are different than the 90/91.
It may just be the 88... can't remember and I don't have the time to go look it up right now.

So there you go!
Take that 4 speed out and slap in the 5 speed!

 

I'm glad someone answered this I have a 1990 four speed dx. There was a guy who owned the car who did god knows what to this thing. I think its a normal 4spd dx but someone said that dx's didn't come in 4spd models. I also am looking to get a 5 put in. I have one question though. Will there be a signifacant diff in an si 5spd tranny and the dx 5spd tranny? if so can someone tell me what.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fkguitar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm glad someone answered this I have a 1990 four speed dx. There was a guy who owned the car who did god knows what to this thing. I think its a normal 4spd dx but someone said that dx's didn't come in 4spd models. I also am looking to get a 5 put in. I have one question though. Will there be a signifacant diff in an si 5spd tranny and the dx 5spd tranny? if so can someone tell me what.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The 88-91 base-model Civic hatch wasn't called a DX. It was simply called the "Civic" with no suffix or anything. This can be confusing because almost every Honda since the late 80's (including the 88-91 CRX and 4-door Civic) has had a suffix for every package including the base model, and the base model's suffix is usually "DX". (92 and later base-model Civic hatches were called the "CX".)

The 88-91 "DX" hatch was actually an upgraded package with a better engine, 5-speed tranny and slightly nicer interior. The DX was also available with body-color bumpers.

The Si tranny has a slightly lower (higher numeric) final drive ratio than the DX tranny. IIRC it also has a slightly smaller ratio gap between 4th and 5th gears. It will make your car accelerate faster with a slight reduction in MPG. Can't seem to find the exact gear ratio specs though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4drEF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The axles WILL plug right into your "new" tranny so obviously you do NOT need to be changing knuckles/hubs.

The only tanny that would be an issue are the ZC tranny's because they have a big asle end that goes into the tranny (B-series sized).

If you are not putting a ZC tranny in then you have nothing to worry about.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what I was looking for.

Thank you.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carguychris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's what I was looking for.

Thank you. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah same here, I thought i would have to replace the shafts, good to know i dont have to

 

My 4 speed was called a STD...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carguychris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The 88-91 base-model Civic hatch wasn't called a DX. It was simply called the "Civic" with no suffix or anything. This can be confusing because almost every Honda since the late 80's (including the 88-91 CRX and 4-door Civic) has had a suffix for every package including the base model, and the base model's suffix is usually "DX". (92 and later base-model Civic hatches were called the "CX".)

The 88-91 "DX" hatch was actually an upgraded package with a better engine, 5-speed tranny and slightly nicer interior. The DX was also available with body-color bumpers.

The Si tranny has a slightly lower (higher numeric) final drive ratio than the DX tranny. IIRC it also has a slightly smaller ratio gap between 4th and 5th gears. It will make your car accelerate faster with a slight reduction in MPG. Can't seem to find the exact gear ratio specs though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
False statement. Some DXs DID come with 4 speeds. I know for a fact. I have talked to people who had 4 speed DXs.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4drEF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You may or may not have to deal with issues with the clutch/flywheel.
I'm not positive on the years, but I think the 88 and 89 are different than the 90/91.
It may just be the 88... can't remember and I don't have the time to go look it up right now.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is. Only 88 is different

 

the clutches in 89 are different than 90-91,s but it is only the diameter of the clutch discs. look for an 89-91 si tranny, but dx tranny will work, too.

dx and si trannys have the same gears, but the differential is geared lower.

the insides of the axles are the same, but the std's have light duty axles, hubs, and brakes like the hf's do.

so if it is a std (look for vinyl interior, or lack of other options like the attachments for a rear cargo cover) i would suggest swapping to the different spindles. not necessary, but i'd do it when i got the chance.

also, dx axles, spindles (knuckles), and brakes are the same as the si.