Leased tires to limit testing.... (Nascar)
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From: Charlotte
Leased tires to limit testing.... (Nascar)
In todays Charlotte Observer there is a article about Nascar looking at having teams leasing the tires that they use with the long-term purpose of limiting testing.
The are "still only considering such a move, and said that such a change would not be something Nascar would adopt in the middle of a season".
They refrenced the IRL tire rule:
-supplied with between 7 and 9 sets of tires for an event. (depending on the distance and a max. of 35 sets for the Indy 500).
-at the 4 open test dates (and 3 open engine test dates).. teams can lease the tires but must return them after the end of the event.
Link:
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/c...ports/
NASCAR could eventually use tire rules to limit testing
Under Nextel Cup News (you have to sign up) :MAD:
It would help keep the teams budgets low... but would it hurt the development of the cars?
Could the 'saved' money be used in the wind tunnel?
Thoughts?
The are "still only considering such a move, and said that such a change would not be something Nascar would adopt in the middle of a season".
They refrenced the IRL tire rule:
-supplied with between 7 and 9 sets of tires for an event. (depending on the distance and a max. of 35 sets for the Indy 500).
-at the 4 open test dates (and 3 open engine test dates).. teams can lease the tires but must return them after the end of the event.
Link:
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/c...ports/
NASCAR could eventually use tire rules to limit testing
Under Nextel Cup News (you have to sign up) :MAD:
It would help keep the teams budgets low... but would it hurt the development of the cars?
Could the 'saved' money be used in the wind tunnel?
Thoughts?
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,049
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From: Snowwhitepillowformybigfathead
Re: Leased tires to limit testing.... (Willard)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...Thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE>
"Well, you know, I've always had ALOT of problems with racing in general philosophical terms...
First off: it's simply unfair to the majority of competitors.
Even if you could take money out of the equation, you still have an unfair distribution of talent and brains.
Alot of people look at a situation like that and say to themselves "I wonder what's on Entertainment Tonite tonite".
But I've been thinking about things. And I think the system could be fixed.
By awarding points based on a complex matrix taking into account how much (or little) a teams spends, the size of the team, the aggregate IQ of the team members, drivers, and pricipals, and tootsies, and (since this is racing you know) The Results.
When the stupidest, poorest, smallest teams start kicking ***, the smartest, richest, biggest teams will Wise Up!"
Scott, who, more and more, only pays attention to his own racing, not that makes alot of sense either though...
"Well, you know, I've always had ALOT of problems with racing in general philosophical terms...
First off: it's simply unfair to the majority of competitors.
Even if you could take money out of the equation, you still have an unfair distribution of talent and brains.
Alot of people look at a situation like that and say to themselves "I wonder what's on Entertainment Tonite tonite".
But I've been thinking about things. And I think the system could be fixed.
By awarding points based on a complex matrix taking into account how much (or little) a teams spends, the size of the team, the aggregate IQ of the team members, drivers, and pricipals, and tootsies, and (since this is racing you know) The Results.
When the stupidest, poorest, smallest teams start kicking ***, the smartest, richest, biggest teams will Wise Up!"
Scott, who, more and more, only pays attention to his own racing, not that makes alot of sense either though...
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,472
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From: HP, NC, USA
Re: Leased tires to limit testing.... (Willard)
Tires. Yeah, I've got some real strong opinions about race rubber. Why do they have to be so damn sticky? Just so you can burn them up faster...and put on another fresh set...so you can burn that set up faster? I don't get it. Heck yes, they should run a harder compound and burn up fewer tires. It makes sense even at the pro level.
Wanna slow em down at Talledega and Daytona? Run an enduro compound and take off the restrictor plates! They'd have to brake for the corners...and there would be passing at the end of the straights and coming out of the corners. You'll find out real quick who has the car control gift!
I'd like to see the new Falken as the spec tire for Honda Challenge. You could run the whole season on 6 tires @ $80 each!!! Screw those $180 Hoosiers!
Would anyone object to a hard-*** spec tire in ECHC?...and why?
Wanna slow em down at Talledega and Daytona? Run an enduro compound and take off the restrictor plates! They'd have to brake for the corners...and there would be passing at the end of the straights and coming out of the corners. You'll find out real quick who has the car control gift!
I'd like to see the new Falken as the spec tire for Honda Challenge. You could run the whole season on 6 tires @ $80 each!!! Screw those $180 Hoosiers!
Would anyone object to a hard-*** spec tire in ECHC?...and why?
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 13,483
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From: cali
Re: Leased tires to limit testing.... (Track rat)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'd like to see the new Falken as the spec tire for Honda Challenge. You could run the whole season on 6 tires @ $80 each!!! Screw those $180 Hoosiers!
Would anyone object to a hard-*** spec tire in ECHC?...and why?</TD></TR></TABLE>
in the west we already have toyo as the spec tire, some guys only use 8 or 10 tires all season long.
the down side is that it doesn't open up sponsorships for racers in the area of tires. If every one HAS TO run one tire then why would that tire manufacture provide sponsorship.
at least that was the thinking i thought the ECHC people went with. If you have open tires it opens up sponsorships, which drops cost of racing.
IMO i love the spec tire deal, and i think the RA1 is a great spec tire. It provides decent grip, great life, and they are relativly cheap
I'd like to see the new Falken as the spec tire for Honda Challenge. You could run the whole season on 6 tires @ $80 each!!! Screw those $180 Hoosiers!
Would anyone object to a hard-*** spec tire in ECHC?...and why?</TD></TR></TABLE>
in the west we already have toyo as the spec tire, some guys only use 8 or 10 tires all season long.
the down side is that it doesn't open up sponsorships for racers in the area of tires. If every one HAS TO run one tire then why would that tire manufacture provide sponsorship.
at least that was the thinking i thought the ECHC people went with. If you have open tires it opens up sponsorships, which drops cost of racing.
IMO i love the spec tire deal, and i think the RA1 is a great spec tire. It provides decent grip, great life, and they are relativly cheap
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,472
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From: HP, NC, USA
Re: Leased tires to limit testing.... (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
IMO i love the spec tire deal, and i think the RA1 is a great spec tire. It provides decent grip, great life, and they are relativly cheap</TD></TR></TABLE>
Agree, and Toyo has a nice contingency program. I think they offer it regardless of spec status.
IMO i love the spec tire deal, and i think the RA1 is a great spec tire. It provides decent grip, great life, and they are relativly cheap</TD></TR></TABLE>
Agree, and Toyo has a nice contingency program. I think they offer it regardless of spec status.
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 12,092
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Re: Leased tires to limit testing.... (RR98ITR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First off: it's simply unfair to the majority of competitors.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You mean ... like the fact that only one car will be the winner?
You mean ... like the fact that only one car will be the winner?
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From: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Re: Leased tires to limit testing.... (Willard)
Here's the thing about spec tires, or spec anything, or rules for cost containment of any kind:
Teams that have the money will find a way to spend the money. Period.
Let's take those evil Spec Miatas. Until very recently they had a spec tire rule here in the SEDIV. So only one tire manufacturer (toyo) and one tire (RA-1). So you could run a whole season on a single set of tires before they cord right? Well, except that the really fast guys found out that they lose about 1/2 a second a lap after about 3 heat cycles, and then stay there forever. So guess what. Fresh tires every race.
In series such as USF2000 (www.usf2000.com) they run a spec tire, and force the competitors to "nominate" 6 tires they will use to qual and race all weekend (double race weekends, so you have 6 tires for 2 quals and 2 races). So no matter what you do, you can only spend 6 tires worth of money on actual races per weekend. So do the teams with more money still win? You bet your ***. Because they test more. Or rebuild their engines more often, or whatever.
The same is true on up the line. If NASCAR mandated less testing through tire leasing, the big teams (Hendrick, DEI, Yates, Roush) would STILL win most of the races because they would spend more time in the wind tunnel, or in the dyno room, or have better pit guys, or send their drivers to special Yoga/Ninja masters to perfect the art of 'zen racing' or some other bullshit because THEY STILL HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY TO SPEND.
Granted, a lot of spec rules will keep the racing CLOSER, because you can only gain 1/10th of a second for every $100,000 spent, instead of 1/2 or 1 or 5 seconds. But, in the end, it's still the guy with the best combination of talent and $$$$$ who will win. And I'll tell you from first hand experience, it's a hell of a lot easier to make up for talent with dollars than the other way around.
-Matt
Teams that have the money will find a way to spend the money. Period.
Let's take those evil Spec Miatas. Until very recently they had a spec tire rule here in the SEDIV. So only one tire manufacturer (toyo) and one tire (RA-1). So you could run a whole season on a single set of tires before they cord right? Well, except that the really fast guys found out that they lose about 1/2 a second a lap after about 3 heat cycles, and then stay there forever. So guess what. Fresh tires every race.
In series such as USF2000 (www.usf2000.com) they run a spec tire, and force the competitors to "nominate" 6 tires they will use to qual and race all weekend (double race weekends, so you have 6 tires for 2 quals and 2 races). So no matter what you do, you can only spend 6 tires worth of money on actual races per weekend. So do the teams with more money still win? You bet your ***. Because they test more. Or rebuild their engines more often, or whatever.
The same is true on up the line. If NASCAR mandated less testing through tire leasing, the big teams (Hendrick, DEI, Yates, Roush) would STILL win most of the races because they would spend more time in the wind tunnel, or in the dyno room, or have better pit guys, or send their drivers to special Yoga/Ninja masters to perfect the art of 'zen racing' or some other bullshit because THEY STILL HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY TO SPEND.
Granted, a lot of spec rules will keep the racing CLOSER, because you can only gain 1/10th of a second for every $100,000 spent, instead of 1/2 or 1 or 5 seconds. But, in the end, it's still the guy with the best combination of talent and $$$$$ who will win. And I'll tell you from first hand experience, it's a hell of a lot easier to make up for talent with dollars than the other way around.
-Matt
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