Spent the day autocrossing a friend's RX-8. The car is bone stock except for race rubber.

I have to say that I was completely unimpressed. Its not that its an awful car, its not. Its just that I expected alot more.

Really, what it comes down to is that (IMO again) this is a big, heavy car with lots of bells a whistles and it has no torque. I mean, this thing has no ***** at all coming off a slow corner. By the end of the day I was actually romping on the throttle in corners TRYING to spin the car and I couldn't get the rears to break loose. It'll do it in first gear, but... Well... Whooptie ****.

I imagine that the car is great on track or even at a fast, flowing autocross. But on the course we had today (2 180s and a couple of tight 90s) I actually prefer our 140K Neon with bent valves. At least I can get the *** end of the Neon to swing around for me when I want it to.
Driving the RX-8 was like waiting for a big turbo to spool up. On the course we were on (which was pretty typical of a regional Solo II) as soon as it got actually moving it was time to hit the brakes again.
Now, the brakes... The brakes are fuggin feenominal. My eyeballs are sore from the damned brakes.

Scott, who says "Yes, the traction control was off."

 

Try the GRM way of making a car loose.... rear positive camber, max toe out, silly tire pressures.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PseudoRealityX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try the GRM way of making a car loose.... rear positive camber, max toe out, silly tire pressures.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sure that you don't need to go to that extreme to get the tail of the car out. The thing I didn't like about the car (other than it's tendency to understeer) is that it's drive by wire system is a little slow to respond. Though I don't think that would be too much of an issue with autocross. On street rubber it does a decent job of stepping out w/ the proper pressures though. I think the car fit its nitche fairly well. Wait for the 4th gen 7 to hopefully come out with the sales from the 8.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scott, who says "Yes, the traction control was off."</TD></TR></TABLE>All the way off? I had a similar experience autocrossing an RX8, as the secondary/DSC part of the traction control hadn't been disabled...

 

It's been "dyno" proven that if the front wheels aren't moving along the same lines as the rear wheels the engine cuts power. This is why the RX-8 can't be dynoed on a typical dynojet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Spent the day autocrossing a friend's RX-8. The car is bone stock except for race rubber.</TD></TR></TABLE> So is mine. Well.. I have a big front bar which induces more understeer.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Really, what it comes down to is that (IMO again) this is a big, heavy car with lots of bells a whistles and it has no torque. </TD></TR></TABLE> Heavy as compared to what? A honda? A WRX? My BS RX-8 will be under 2800 lbs. when I'm done with it. In todays day and age of cars... that's NOT bad. However, I agree, it's got no torque.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I mean, this thing has no ***** at all coming off a slow corner. By the end of the day I was actually romping on the throttle in corners TRYING to spin the car and I couldn't get the rears to break loose. It'll do it in first gear, but... Well... Whooptie ****. </TD></TR></TABLE> Bingo! I have to ask.. have you auto-xed an S2000 in the same kind of course? Tight stuff.. you HAVE TO downshift.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Driving the RX-8 was like waiting for a big turbo to spool up. On the course we were on (which was pretty typical of a regional Solo II) as soon as it got actually moving it was time to hit the brakes again.</TD></TR></TABLE> I'd also agree to this... good thing I used to drive a turbo. Really... downshift, or take the tight line and be patient. In the wet today, I tried 1st gear on the 3 tight corners (36 second course in a small lot) and got too much wheelsplin on most corners when I was in 1st... and in 2nd gear it was sufficient. And yes, they were TIGHT. Hell.. Nate Whipple (solo-x) designed the course! :D (Who also got top pax for the event... I got 2nd... .074 behind him... he ran STX so had .003 harder pax)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now, the brakes... The brakes are fuggin feenominal. My eyeballs are sore from the damned brakes.</TD></TR></TABLE> When you're not used to these brakes.. you tend to brake too early or too hard.... combine both of those... and you're losing time. This car takes seat time to get used to. I should have my Konis going in this or next week when I can find some spare time.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scott, who says "Yes, the traction control was off."</TD></TR></TABLE>
I hate when I don't remember to shut off the joy-kill button.

--kC

 

Take it from somebody that races a rotory on a national level,
A rotory will not have any torque, its a "revy" engine, much higher than most are used to working with.
My race rig, yes it is bridge ported, and maxed to the wazoo, doesent even start producing good power until about 9500 RPM.
The problem with the '8s are people who are buying them are already neglecting the oil requirments and trashing motors after 20K miles.

 

holy irony!

you drive an itc car and autox a neon.. and your complaining about an rx-8???

I have only driven an rx8 in the wet and it had plenty of power. But like all things rotary. you need rpm to make power.

sounds like someone over estimated greatly on things he thought the car could do.

 

And Keith was in the 35s. He killed the rest of us in BS. By seconds... (next fastest time was in the 37s, and I was thrilled with my 38.4) The class got together and decided we're not going to count Keith anymore.

Nice drive Keith.

Diane

 

heh..... I was also at the event with KC and Diane a course can't get much tighter than that one...... and KC's last run with the *** end hanging out in spots leaves me to believ e that the car may not have been your problem

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by r2x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And Keith was in the 35s. He killed the rest of us in BS. By seconds... (next fastest time was in the 37s, and I was thrilled with my 38.4) The class got together and decided we're not going to count Keith anymore.

Diane</TD></TR></TABLE>

HEY! Waitaminute! Foul! Bad Form! Objection!

Fine! I don't wanna play with you guys anymore. I'm going to buy a BMW where I know I'll feel loved.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Formula Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">holy irony!

you drive an itc car and autox a neon.. and your complaining about an rx-8???
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep. The Neon IMO is more fun.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Formula Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sounds like someone over estimated greatly on things he thought the car could do.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Define "overestimated."
There are a whole bunch of cars in that price range that I'd prefer. Actually, I could buy TWO nice E36 M3s and kick the RX8's butt with both of them.

Yes, downshifting may be necessary in these cars, but downshifting also equals lost time at an autocross. Which kind of supports my point.
A *good* autocross ride will capably do just about any course in 2nd gear.

As far as weight... Its over 2800lbs and "felt" heavier to me. Probably the combination of the lack of torque and the drive by wire system.
And it pushes pretty badly, which could probably be remedied with some Konis. But pushing and no ***** aren't a great combination.

Again, probably great on the track, great on the street, and much better on a fast, flowing autoX course. But in the tight stuff it sucks. It needs the torque and throttle response to break the rears loose on demand and it doesn't have it. Slam the throttle in mid-corner and what you get in return is an evil push... Wrong Answer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A *good* autocross ride will capably do just about any course in 2nd gear.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

:cough: S2000 :cough:

:cough: kicked out of BS for being "too good" :cough:

 

:cough: On national courses, which tend to be much faster and open than regional courses, which tend to be more space limited :cough:.

 

IIRC, Saini and a couple others have go down to 1st gear on quite a few courses, including the ones in Topeka...

--kC

 

video of said course in a Z06......


http://www.derangedkiwi.net/vi...x.wmv

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Define "overestimated."
There are a whole bunch of cars in that price range that I'd prefer. Actually, I could buy TWO nice E36 M3s and kick the RX8's butt with both of them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Surprising that you'd say that when you're complining about the weight of the 8 when in Stock form, the M3 is 300 lbs heavier and has about the same stock HP as an 8.... where the M3 wins is the torque department.

But I'd take the suspension design of the 8 over the E36M3.

We'll see what happens this year. We already know that for ProSolos, the MR2 turbo is pretty much the car to have, but for Solo-II the jury is still out until Nats.

Of the 6 Tours, only 2 M3s have finished above RX8s.... and at that only one position higher. The 8s have had very little development to it so far... this year, they're starting to come into their own. I don't think you'll see one that's at the limit until Nationals at the earliest.

Are they the car to have for the class? Not saying that... Bauer's kicking some west coast butt in his 968.

--kC

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">:cough: On national courses, which tend to be much faster and open than regional courses, which tend to be more space limited :cough:.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The two best stock class honda's out there *both* have had to downshift into first multiple times at Nationals.

Subaru's shift between 2nd and 3rd at least a gazillion times a run, and MR2s find themselves inbetween 2nd and 3rd as well.

Scott, remember that stock class autocross is a *huge* compromise in setup, where you have things like custom shocks that think they are springs and front sway bars the size of my arm. I think, after all these years of racing in classes where you can fix a cars OEM woes, you may have forgotten this....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I think, after all these years of racing in classes where you can fix a cars OEM woes, you may have forgotten this....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good point. I instructed at a school this past Sat... same lot as the video above. I had a new '05 WRX.... after running my STX Wagon for the past three years, I totally forgot how bad the WRX is in stock form. LLLAAAAAGGGGGGG. My 8 felt like a Vette compared to that car.

--kC

 

The old S2000 gear ratios had 1st gear going up to 48+ mph w/ stock tire sizes. Revving the engine is normal! A lot of the courses that I fun run w/ my friend's S2000 I drove completely in first gear. You just have to shift w/ some cars...

 

Scott:

Downshift. Every really good autocross car does not go through the course in 2nd gear.

And stock WRX's. Ugh. Don't get me started. Good STX cars were just above my threshold for "fun car".

 

and lets not forget that kC came 2nd in pax to an ST car but did it on v710's. mid 50's and rain aren't very good for race tires on a sandy, oily parking lot. the poor mod and prepared guys were cursing me all day. i don't think i helped matters when i told one of them they could run on my tires...

nate - What Tires for This Run Racing

 

We love you... we just think you aren't human, and therefore we shouldn't have to compare ourselves to you. See you at Devens.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by r2x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We love you... we just think you aren't human </TD></TR></TABLE>

He's not human, just old. *ducks and runs*

love ya KC!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

nate - What Tires for This Run Racing</TD></TR></TABLE>

GTF may have changed tires after a run but didn't have the 5 person crew that made Nate's tire changes between runs a possibility.

(did I see a catch can holder in there too?)