Sway Bar
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,633
Likes: 1
From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
i see alot of people on ITR rear sways.
i've helped install a progress 24mm adj. on a GSR. good unit with new endlinks. they also have a 22mm non adj with endlinks too.
i've helped install a progress 24mm adj. on a GSR. good unit with new endlinks. they also have a 22mm non adj with endlinks too.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 692
Likes: 0
From: MN, United States
Re: (bad-monkey)
Any others? Any know anything about the r-racing sway bar tie bar combo found on robearracing.com
Looks like this.
Here is the description:
R-Racing Anti-Roll Bars improve lateral stability without stiffening normal suspension movement. Anti-roll bars minimize body roll, which stabilizes the tire contact patch for maximum traction. That's important because all of the weight and power of your vehicle is transmitted to the road over a mere handful of square inches called the tire contact patch. Most FWD street cars have moderate understeer (aka "PUSH"). The sway bars are designed to improve overall balance by the use of proportionately stiffer rear bars. The car will have a "neutral" feel, with a gentle push at its limits. The opposite of push or understeer is oversteer. Cars that exhibit this characteristic are said to be "loose" and are prone to spinning.
Includes:
22mm Rear Sway Bar
Sub-Frame Re-inforcement
Rear Lower Tie-Bar
Adjustable End-Links (pair)
All Neccessary Hardware
it is for $199
Looks like this.
Here is the description:
R-Racing Anti-Roll Bars improve lateral stability without stiffening normal suspension movement. Anti-roll bars minimize body roll, which stabilizes the tire contact patch for maximum traction. That's important because all of the weight and power of your vehicle is transmitted to the road over a mere handful of square inches called the tire contact patch. Most FWD street cars have moderate understeer (aka "PUSH"). The sway bars are designed to improve overall balance by the use of proportionately stiffer rear bars. The car will have a "neutral" feel, with a gentle push at its limits. The opposite of push or understeer is oversteer. Cars that exhibit this characteristic are said to be "loose" and are prone to spinning.
Includes:
22mm Rear Sway Bar
Sub-Frame Re-inforcement
Rear Lower Tie-Bar
Adjustable End-Links (pair)
All Neccessary Hardware
it is for $199
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,962
Likes: 0
From: at the track
Re: (bad-monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i see alot of people on ITR rear sways.
i've helped install a progress 24mm adj. on a GSR. good unit with new endlinks. they also have a 22mm non adj with endlinks too.</TD></TR></TABLE>
got any info on that progress bar?
i've helped install a progress 24mm adj. on a GSR. good unit with new endlinks. they also have a 22mm non adj with endlinks too.</TD></TR></TABLE>
got any info on that progress bar?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,633
Likes: 1
From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
Re: (743power)
http://www.progressauto.com/pages/Antirollbars.htm
http://www.progressauto.com/pa...c.htm#
not sure who's selling it these days. my friend bought it from factory X a while back.
the install is a little complicated since the endlinks are spherical bearing and require some concentration to build. it's not impossible, just a little time consuming. the 24mm adjustable has an infinite amt of adjustment increments, since it is an undivided groove, whereas my progress 27mm adj for my prelude has only 3 increments. however, there can be issues with the endlinks sliding around on the 24mm, and my friend busted an endlink at an a/x once under heavy cornering.
still he's satisfied with it, and i'm satisfied with mine.
http://www.progressauto.com/pa...c.htm#
not sure who's selling it these days. my friend bought it from factory X a while back.
the install is a little complicated since the endlinks are spherical bearing and require some concentration to build. it's not impossible, just a little time consuming. the 24mm adjustable has an infinite amt of adjustment increments, since it is an undivided groove, whereas my progress 27mm adj for my prelude has only 3 increments. however, there can be issues with the endlinks sliding around on the 24mm, and my friend busted an endlink at an a/x once under heavy cornering.
still he's satisfied with it, and i'm satisfied with mine.
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Irvine, Ca, Orange County
got a question. with sway bars is there such a thing as being too thick? i mean is there a thinkness which is juss like overboard and i shouldn't even bother wit? i got a dc2 n rolling on tenzo r spring and kyb agx shocks, and was wondering how thick i should hab it on the front n on the rear.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,633
Likes: 1
From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
Re: (TunaDaMan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunaDaMan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">got a question. with sway bars is there such a thing as being too thick? i mean is there a thinkness which is juss like overboard and i shouldn't even bother wit? i got a dc2 n rolling on tenzo r spring and kyb agx shocks, and was wondering how thick i should hab it on the front n on the rear.</TD></TR></TABLE>
there is such a thing as "too thick"
-when a sway bar causes the car to handle way too loose, it's probably too thick
-since swaybars effectively reduce overall grip for the sake of flat cornering, having huge swaybars can slow down a car's lap times.
-if the swaybar is too thick that it damages the subframe, it's too thick in relation to how stiff your springs are.
also, thickness is the primary measure of the spring constant of the torsional spring (which is what a swaybar is, essentially) however sometimes thickness doesn't tell the whole story. overall design has a bearing on how much force the swaybar is going to exert on the chassis, so a crappy 24mm sway might not be as "stiff" as a good 21mm sway.
with your setup, you don't want to overdo it on the swaybar-something in the low 20's would be apropo.
there is such a thing as "too thick"
-when a sway bar causes the car to handle way too loose, it's probably too thick
-since swaybars effectively reduce overall grip for the sake of flat cornering, having huge swaybars can slow down a car's lap times.
-if the swaybar is too thick that it damages the subframe, it's too thick in relation to how stiff your springs are.
also, thickness is the primary measure of the spring constant of the torsional spring (which is what a swaybar is, essentially) however sometimes thickness doesn't tell the whole story. overall design has a bearing on how much force the swaybar is going to exert on the chassis, so a crappy 24mm sway might not be as "stiff" as a good 21mm sway.
with your setup, you don't want to overdo it on the swaybar-something in the low 20's would be apropo.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 0
From: Between Willow, and Button Willow, CA, USA
Re: Sway Bar (ORcivicsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ORcivicsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is the best Rear Sway bar to get on my 00 si. I want 19mm and up. Which ones come with the end links?</TD></TR></TABLE>
well, I would have to say it depends on what you want to do with it and what you already have.
This company makes one of the nicest and strongest set-ups for your car. One problem the EK civics have is the rear subframe seems to tear quite often when you put a big bar in the back and nothing to strengthen it!
Check these guys out. Yes, it will cost more than just a ITR rear sway bar. But it's ALOT cheaper than having someone repair your subframe when you tear it up!
http://a-spec-racing.com/products.php
You can choose from the 22 or 32 setup. But having driven the 32 set up, it's a VERY stiff bar and will give you some GREAT rotation which would be bad for some situations on the street!
well, I would have to say it depends on what you want to do with it and what you already have.
This company makes one of the nicest and strongest set-ups for your car. One problem the EK civics have is the rear subframe seems to tear quite often when you put a big bar in the back and nothing to strengthen it!
Check these guys out. Yes, it will cost more than just a ITR rear sway bar. But it's ALOT cheaper than having someone repair your subframe when you tear it up!
http://a-spec-racing.com/products.php
You can choose from the 22 or 32 setup. But having driven the 32 set up, it's a VERY stiff bar and will give you some GREAT rotation which would be bad for some situations on the street!
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Irvine, Ca, Orange County
I was wondering how the setup for the sways should be like, my friend told me that if i get new sways, that i would want a bigger diameter sway on the rear than the front. is that really the way to go? 
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 940
Likes: 0
From: Mission Viejo, CA, United States
Re: Sway Bar (ORcivicsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ORcivicsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anybody use the r-racing sway bar i pointed out</TD></TR></TABLE>
That looks like a replica of the SRR rear sway bar kit.
Wonder if it has any sort of quality at all?
That looks like a replica of the SRR rear sway bar kit.
Wonder if it has any sort of quality at all?
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,400
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Sway Bar (ORcivicsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ORcivicsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anybody use the r-racing sway bar i pointed out</TD></TR></TABLE>
Looks like the same one JHPUSA is selling as a Vision bar:
http://www.jhpusa.com/catalog/...t.jpg
The bar doesn't appear to have adjustment holes nor do the endlinks look adjustable. Also, the endlinks look a little flimsy for that much bar.
I would recommend the Comptech bar.
Looks like the same one JHPUSA is selling as a Vision bar:
http://www.jhpusa.com/catalog/...t.jpg
The bar doesn't appear to have adjustment holes nor do the endlinks look adjustable. Also, the endlinks look a little flimsy for that much bar.
I would recommend the Comptech bar.
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,400
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Sway Bar (Naturally Aspirated)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Naturally Aspirated »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So If i put on the comptech sway bar, with 450lbs/in springs in rear 375 lbs/in front, will I tear my subframe?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope.
Nope.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 0
From: Between Willow, and Button Willow, CA, USA
Re: Sway Bar (Naturally Aspirated)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Naturally Aspirated »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So If i put on the comptech sway bar, with 450lbs/in springs in rear 375 lbs/in front, will I tear my subframe?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You wont with the A-spec-racing bar either. Plus, it uses OEM honda rubber bushings that never sqeek!
If you do a search on that bar, you may find as I have that it's one of the best bars out there for the money!
You wont with the A-spec-racing bar either. Plus, it uses OEM honda rubber bushings that never sqeek!
If you do a search on that bar, you may find as I have that it's one of the best bars out there for the money!
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Southwest, AZ, US
September 9, 2004
Engineering Department Manager
I am contacting you regarding your 22mm anti sway/tie bar for the ’96-00 Honda Civic. I purchased this product from Stillen in December of 2001. I installed the piece with a friends help on my 2000 Honda Civic Si. I had my brother and father inspect the installation after following all reassembly procedures laid out in your instruction manual using my Haynes manual as a reference.
Recently I ran into a severe problem. My car suffered what I would call a catastrophic failure of the rear sub frame. I identified the problem while checking my air pressure. As you can see in the included photos, the damage is quite extensive. The damage is concentrated to the area covered by the red reinforcing plates. These plates, I imagine, were designed to spread the stress created by the larger anti sway bar to a larger area. What they ultimately did was remove the sheet metal underneath them, almost completely. Understand that the car did not strike any objects. This damage was caused by everyday driving over a 30 month period.
I feel that there are two identifiable flaws in the design of your product:
1. Oversized lower control arm hole. I believe that this hole was left oversized so that the plates could easily accommodate any variance in the geometry of the vast number of cars it was designed to fit. Does not the adjustable center portion address this? This is a problem because it does not provide a static location for the rear end of the lower control arm bolt. This allows the bolt to pivot for the other side within the plate.
2. The plate does not seat up against the sheet metal underneath it. The rear portion of the lower control arm mounting point is concave; the back of the plate is flat. This creates what appears to be a .375” gap. Even when the lower control arm bolts are properly torqued, a gap remains. This means that there is no pressure on the back side of the lower control arm mounting point, thus it can move relatively freely.
These two flaws combined allow the lower control arm to manipulate the back side of the lower control arm mounting point via the lower control arm bolt. This manipulation is compounded by the fact that the bolt supplied in the kit is longer than the stock bolt, thus the forces applied by the lower control arm are even greater.
The failure caused by this was tremendous. On the passenger’s side of my car, the back side of the lower control arm mounting point was completely ripped away. The bolt that is welded to the front side of the mount at the factory was broken free and became loose so much that it was only threaded on by half of its thickness. The driver’s side faired little better. The back side of the lower control arm mounting point was still attached by approximately 1” of metal.
It happens that this damage was in the works for some time but remained unseen up to one month prior to the day I noticed it. The night prior I had driven 200 miles on the freeway. The weekend prior I had driven 1000 miles to California. The next day I was supposed to travel 100 miles though mountainous roads. I am still in shock that I identified this damage by coincidence and I narrowly avoided the unthinkable.
I have since made repairs to my car. These repairs were at a great cost to me and required the efforts of several mechanics and fabricators. Attached are copies of all of the receipts for expenses incurred in the repairs made to my Civic and the additional bracing necessary to safely accommodate your product. Despite getting tremendous discounts on labor and material, the repairs cost me $ 2,124.31 and I was without my vehicle for eight days total.
The solutions that my mechanics and fabricators came up with to address the shortcomings of your product include:
1. Replacing the rear sub frame.
2. Reinforcing the rear sub frame by stitch welding 10 gauge gussets to each side and plates down the middle forming an H structure.
3. Spot welding the new sub frame from both the bottom and top of the car.
4. Stitch welding the new sub frame to unit body rail joints on the left and right most portions of the sub frame.
5. Machining steel sleeves to fill the oversized hole in the plates of the tie bar.
6. These sleeves also allow the lower control arm bolt to apply its torque to the back side of the lower control arm mounting point, just as it is supposed to.
7. Welding in a 1.5” tubular brace that spans the rear unit body rails underneath the trunk.
8. Running adjustable braces that mount between the above mentioned brace and the anti sway bar brackets on your product.
9. Installing a new, smaller muffler that accommodates the additional bracing required.
To say that I am disappointed in your product is an understatement. I feel that you have a moral obligation to correct these flaws and to notify immediately, all consumers that you have sold this product to, that they need to have their vehicles inspected immediately for damage, and to remove your product until a suitable replacement can be had or a refund is issued. As it is, you’re your product is a safety liability for anyone driving or near someone who is driving a car equipped with said product.
I understand the tremendous inconvenience that this would cause, but understand this: Had I gone out on that mountain drive the next day, I might very well be dead. The rear suspension was, literally, one inch away from falling off completely. I look forward to your response.
I sent this to ST and they never replied. I would advise you to stay away from any ST product and any product that duplicates their crap design like the "robearracing.com" bar you have picked out.
Engineering Department Manager
I am contacting you regarding your 22mm anti sway/tie bar for the ’96-00 Honda Civic. I purchased this product from Stillen in December of 2001. I installed the piece with a friends help on my 2000 Honda Civic Si. I had my brother and father inspect the installation after following all reassembly procedures laid out in your instruction manual using my Haynes manual as a reference.
Recently I ran into a severe problem. My car suffered what I would call a catastrophic failure of the rear sub frame. I identified the problem while checking my air pressure. As you can see in the included photos, the damage is quite extensive. The damage is concentrated to the area covered by the red reinforcing plates. These plates, I imagine, were designed to spread the stress created by the larger anti sway bar to a larger area. What they ultimately did was remove the sheet metal underneath them, almost completely. Understand that the car did not strike any objects. This damage was caused by everyday driving over a 30 month period.
I feel that there are two identifiable flaws in the design of your product:
1. Oversized lower control arm hole. I believe that this hole was left oversized so that the plates could easily accommodate any variance in the geometry of the vast number of cars it was designed to fit. Does not the adjustable center portion address this? This is a problem because it does not provide a static location for the rear end of the lower control arm bolt. This allows the bolt to pivot for the other side within the plate.
2. The plate does not seat up against the sheet metal underneath it. The rear portion of the lower control arm mounting point is concave; the back of the plate is flat. This creates what appears to be a .375” gap. Even when the lower control arm bolts are properly torqued, a gap remains. This means that there is no pressure on the back side of the lower control arm mounting point, thus it can move relatively freely.
These two flaws combined allow the lower control arm to manipulate the back side of the lower control arm mounting point via the lower control arm bolt. This manipulation is compounded by the fact that the bolt supplied in the kit is longer than the stock bolt, thus the forces applied by the lower control arm are even greater.
The failure caused by this was tremendous. On the passenger’s side of my car, the back side of the lower control arm mounting point was completely ripped away. The bolt that is welded to the front side of the mount at the factory was broken free and became loose so much that it was only threaded on by half of its thickness. The driver’s side faired little better. The back side of the lower control arm mounting point was still attached by approximately 1” of metal.
It happens that this damage was in the works for some time but remained unseen up to one month prior to the day I noticed it. The night prior I had driven 200 miles on the freeway. The weekend prior I had driven 1000 miles to California. The next day I was supposed to travel 100 miles though mountainous roads. I am still in shock that I identified this damage by coincidence and I narrowly avoided the unthinkable.
I have since made repairs to my car. These repairs were at a great cost to me and required the efforts of several mechanics and fabricators. Attached are copies of all of the receipts for expenses incurred in the repairs made to my Civic and the additional bracing necessary to safely accommodate your product. Despite getting tremendous discounts on labor and material, the repairs cost me $ 2,124.31 and I was without my vehicle for eight days total.
The solutions that my mechanics and fabricators came up with to address the shortcomings of your product include:
1. Replacing the rear sub frame.
2. Reinforcing the rear sub frame by stitch welding 10 gauge gussets to each side and plates down the middle forming an H structure.
3. Spot welding the new sub frame from both the bottom and top of the car.
4. Stitch welding the new sub frame to unit body rail joints on the left and right most portions of the sub frame.
5. Machining steel sleeves to fill the oversized hole in the plates of the tie bar.
6. These sleeves also allow the lower control arm bolt to apply its torque to the back side of the lower control arm mounting point, just as it is supposed to.
7. Welding in a 1.5” tubular brace that spans the rear unit body rails underneath the trunk.
8. Running adjustable braces that mount between the above mentioned brace and the anti sway bar brackets on your product.
9. Installing a new, smaller muffler that accommodates the additional bracing required.
To say that I am disappointed in your product is an understatement. I feel that you have a moral obligation to correct these flaws and to notify immediately, all consumers that you have sold this product to, that they need to have their vehicles inspected immediately for damage, and to remove your product until a suitable replacement can be had or a refund is issued. As it is, you’re your product is a safety liability for anyone driving or near someone who is driving a car equipped with said product.
I understand the tremendous inconvenience that this would cause, but understand this: Had I gone out on that mountain drive the next day, I might very well be dead. The rear suspension was, literally, one inch away from falling off completely. I look forward to your response.
I sent this to ST and they never replied. I would advise you to stay away from any ST product and any product that duplicates their crap design like the "robearracing.com" bar you have picked out.