Well im sure we all remember the argument about cast manifolds vs. equal length or long tuube manifolds such as the full race line of manifolds...
well finally here is some solid evidence from someone other than the product designers etc etc...
a fellow VW enthusiest decided to test the full race manifold vs. a atp cast manifold while using an engine dyno to dial in his standalone system...

here is the pumpgas test graphed with excel... the data used is from the charts below

these are direct quotes from bob.[/quote]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bobqzzi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dynoed my TT engine on 93 pump gas today. This was a test of what difference there is between a ATP log mani and a Full Race Tubular mani. Same Maps. There was about a 35 degree difference in intake temperatures (higher with Full Race), so the difference is likely to be greater given equal temps.

With ATP mani



With Full Race Manifold



Race gas tommorow


Modified by bobqzzi at 3:09 AM 4-20-2005</TD></TR></TABLE>


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bobqzzi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Another day, and some more info.

First, I need to correct a mistake- I THOUGHT I had a 1.06 A/R turbine, and was going to swap on a .82 to see if it spooled faster. Imagine my surprise when I took the turbo off and discovered it already had a .82. So, all previous sheets are .82.

Here is my sheet from February with the ATP manifold, 23.5psi on 100 octane unleaded.



This is the sheet from today with FullRace manifold. Same Map, 23.5PSi. Notice the much higher intake temps today




I then turned the boost up to 26PSI


Next I installed a catalytic converter, same map.



I then installed a 2.5" tailpipe after the cat- sorry I didn't print the sheet, but it made NO difference.

Right at the end of the day we switched to C16 and turned the boost up to 29.5psi This is a rough tune, and we'll work on it tomorrow.



A busy, but productive, day. There is supposed to be a cold front coming in, so tomorrow should be easier.

BTW- my 83 pound/hr injectors were at @85%


Modified by bobqzzi at 1:54 AM 4-21-2005


Modified by bobqzzi at 1:58 AM 4-21-2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

wow ******* sweet!

 

nice, why is the o2 at 3.7 on the fullrace pump?

 

bob is hard core

 

 

nice work man, lots of effort into it too

 

This is what I expected. Very nice.

 

Wow thats amazing how much a difference the FR.com manifold made vs the regular cast one. Nice job!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bob is hard core</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes he is...
im actually running one of these as well...
ive pumped out 378wheel on pump fuel at 16psi and 431wheel on race fuel at 22psi.
still waiting to do some high boost pulls once pay day comes around lol

and with us VW guys only having the ability to rev to 7500, its amazing how this manifold has proven a 20+hp net gain across the board from 4200-7500... not to mention the increased torque as well...
ive been more than pleased.

 

also, here is the 100 octane 23.5psi comparison graphs...
the c16 graphs are of no contest.

 

full-race never ceases to amaze me with the parts they put out.

 

full race the score is now 2-0 lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by oxSLEEPERxo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">full race the score is now 2-0 lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks

score is actually 3-0

http://forums.freshalloy.com/u...&vc=1

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by oxSLEEPERxo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">full race the score is now 2-0 lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
yep... its kinda looking that way...
the reason why i think this speaks louder than the test performed by full race is because alot of folks tried to call full race out on being biased for whatever reason and trying to boost the results...
so bob provided data sheets with a non biased opinion of thw two setups...
so with that said, more people will be taking notice and the question seems to have been answered for the most part, "which is better, a log style manifold or a long tube style manifold?"
atleast i feel this data has provided me with the answer... with out question.

 

how are people going to argue these results? lol.

 

I don't even know why people even questioned the first test and results. We have even seen test from other manifold companies with pretty much exactly the same outcome. That is why they call this place drama-tech.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GT61 this 1.8t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
alot of folks tried to call full race out on being biased for whatever reason and trying to boost the results...</TD></TR></TABLE>

that was the idea of video taping the entire thing, but no one believed it oh well, thanks bob

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BodyKits NW &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't even know why people even questioned the first test and results. We have even seen test from other manifold companies with pretty much exactly the same outcome. That is why they call this place drama-tech. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I just yanked my full race manifold for an SSAC mani... dyno results soon

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thanks

score is actually 3-0

http://forums.freshalloy.com/u...&vc=1</TD></TR></TABLE>

It was posted here as well

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1056249

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dustin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I just yanked my full race manifold for an SSAC mani... dyno results soon</TD></TR></TABLE>

if the numbers are right, it will start a new bandwagon......common kiddies...jump on.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by m R g S r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if the numbers are right, it will start a new bandwagon......common kiddies...jump on.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep... should work out good with my 8" exhaust

 

I was under the impression that an equal length manifold will spool the turbo sooner than a log style manifold. However, this test shows the log manifold having the advantage up to 4400 rpm. Now I'm confused. Will a GT2871R spool up faster with a log manifold or an equal length manifold?

-Shawn

 

full race's *objective* test proves that the EL manifolds spool turbo slower than "log" manifolds. And it makes sense.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dustin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">full race's *objective* test proves that the EL manifolds spool turbo slower than "log" manifolds. And it makes sense.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Due to the exhaust pulses taking longer to reach the turbine, correct?

-Shawn

 

log manifold = flows poorly but creates lots of high pressure before turbine early (spools faster)

EL manifold = flows well, lower pressure before turbine... longer spoolup but flows better... hence more power

or something like that

it might also involve JDM, vtec, chirp controllers, etc.