After seeing the low turn out for both classes for the first events, should Pro FWD and aftermarket trans Hot Rod cars finally be combined? This comes up every once in a while, but is now the time to start to really think about it? You could do weight breaks for stock chassis cars, and reduce turbo size, tire size, and add weight to tube chassis cars. A good goal for Pro FWD should be a low 8 second to high 7 second class. You could also create a new Hot Rod class that uses stock trans only, smaller tire, with a goal of a mid to high 8 second class. There should be a clear road to go from Sport FWD to Hot Rod to Pro FWD as you build the car.

There are not enough cars for both classes at this time. I know there are more cars being built for both classes but restructuring the classes could create more exciting racing and qualifying. The goal needs to be larger classes, better racing, for a better show.

 

Hell at this point I'm thinking ProFWD / ProRWD and Modified need to be combined in order to get a full field. Not sure what the rules are going to take to get it there but right now both classes are no half as much fun to watch as ProRWD and All motor.

 

Knowing there was going to be a low car count in both classes is why I suggested in the Vegas Predictions thread that the Bergenholtz car enter there, that way there could be a slightly larger class. Hell, the Hot Rod cars were running faster than they ProFWD cars anyways.. I can't see combining ProFWD and Modified with Paul going 7.25 @ 191. They would have to put so many restrictions on his car, that it would be more beneficial for him to step up to ProRWD, which is what he should do anyways. And Ali's car, I don't know what the hell to do with that. It can't compete with Paul or the GS, and can't even compete with the Hot Rod front runners. The only two classes that were worth anything this weekend were All Motor and ProRWD, the rest could have stayed home as they didn't do a lot to promote the sport.

 

I dont think after market trans. should ne allowed in hotrod/quick class! After all the class did start off as being unibody cars with stock trannys! I also think that the gm guys scare alot of fwd racers away! The only guy who could touch marty the last two years was Gary G. now chevy has him! The only one who could touch Nelson was Lisa! oooops i forgot she was driving a saturn not a honda. Super fast fwd cars have been on the scene for a while yet we have one 7 second pass under our belts yet gm comes in and has no less than 3 or 4 cars runnign 7's with trixie deep into the 7's with nelson driving last year! This vegas race was not all that but i think bye the time the 3rd race with the big boys we will see an all around good showing from every class!

 

There would be ALOT of rule changes and probably alot of unhappy people if they combined the classes but they gotta do something to get full fields it is pretty dissapointing.

 

I don't think any of the pro fwd racers are scared of gm it's jus they don't have the money!. If your gonna competitive in racing money and consistency makes a big factor in rather your competitive in racing. give me 2.5 million and about year of research, and i bet i could build a mid 7 sec pro fwd too. LOL

 

Well the way I see (if anyone cares), one of those classes should be wiped out totally and combined into one.

Check out Moroso race....

Lummus ran what 7.99@182?? and its early in the season? (Hot Rod)
Bergenholtz team ran 8.5@162 and its early in the season? (Pro FWD)

We only know that Gardella will go faster, Ladwig will only go faster. Oh and let's not forget Jason Hunt in the new car still getting use to it but already running running 7.9@187 in PRO FWD.

I think were gonna see these 5 cars over and over again in 05 in 2 seperate classes.

They should move Turbo 4/SFWD up into a Pro category class for more action because there's what 16 car field every single time and there's what 6-8 cars all running about the same time? This class is what's keeping it alive for sportsman racers and I think they should be allowed more contigency sponsor money, more exposure cause honestly, I think there are the ones that are bringing the crowds out. I mean quite honestly, isnt this where it all started....bringin it from the streets to the track and putting on a show? Now its more like a major propaganda for the big guns ( no offense love to watch them too) to just kill the class and for the people that has the hopes of running in the classes to just walk away

 

lets look at this a little further

at moroso
11 cars went after 8 spots, and there was some great racing in Modified

fast forward to vegas... gonzales sr is trying to get money to finish the RX-8 after his son crashed the 7 at gainesville.... toplez crashed... ferrer doesnt travel... scheepers is still testing the new car... and ashfar's car is getting re-done
so, a lot of people stayed away from vegas... but i think modified should be seeing full fields, especially with the new rules favoring the puerto rican cars

profwd is a different story
bergenholtz, hunt, ladwig... but you still have shaun carlson who ran really well at the end of last year... callos and scott revell have split and jojo's got a new title sponsor and bugs to still work out... rado has to be un-norwooded... rhodes just got a highly competitive yellow fwd car .... leevon and brent l are still to debut... i really dont know what the deal is with jarrod silvers' car
potentially there are 10 cars that are built to compete in this class... i think the main focus for profwd is to get the cars tested and out racing

hot rod
the suggestion about getting aftermarket trannies out of hotrod and into profwd... that means you take out the competitive hondas, and still leave gm into the mix... that doesnt help anything at all.... there are literally 4 times the amount of hot rod cars in the country than profwd cars... people just need to come out and race, dont be scared of the gm cars

 

I know their are cars that are getting built but how many can afford to travel to all the events. Are we going to have a huge field at NJ and then nothing here in Colorado? We need to do something that will allow racers to follow a progression to get to a pro class and then allow others, who have money, to race in Pro RWD or Pro FWD.

I am personally not scared of GM. For those that are, just outlaw auto tranny's in the new Hot Rod class or just outlaw the GM tranny or toss a 400lbs weight penalty. There are a lot of ways to even out the classes.

 

Good show? it sucked. there will only be 3 hot rod cars that can run in in topeka,
and just 2 pro fwd and just one that can run in the 7 all the time? what poor showing for sport compact racing.

what about stock trans, and 8.50 & slower brake for hr that just may help hr & pro fwd

PS it did not suck that I did not get run It just sucked......

 

I agree, the turn out did kind of suck and many on the NHRA Powerade boards are saying the same thing.

Joe, you guys coming to Denver this year?

 

well i did not mean scared, what i meant was if you know they are gonna be there you know your chances to win are slim unless they mess up like what happend to ladwig in FL! they screwed up and ed got a little lucky! no disrespect but there has yet to be an import fwd that presents any challenge to the car marty is driving!

 

i think both classes should be combined , weight penalties for trany and for tube chassis, but make the weight penalties count , if you know what i mean

 

[QUOTE=fieldafm]... but i think modified should be seeing full fields, especially with the new rules favoring the puerto rican cars

Uh.....what rules are we talking about that favor Puerto Rican cars???? Paul and Justin have each run 7.25's and 190mph apiece. Are you talking about THOSE RULES that allow them to run those times??? As far as I can see, seems like the rules still favor the 2jz's and bigger $$ teams. There are 4 cars that are "competitive" and then there's us. Paul (7.25) Justin (7.25) Brent (7.3's) Demitrios (8.0's, but he'll be in the 7's by this weekend, count on it.) Far be it from us to complain, but it doesn't seem to me like there are any rules favoring Puerto Rican cars. Besides, not every car with a rotary belongs to a Puerto Rican. Let's face it, it's very very expensive to travel to some of these races that are far away. There will be full fields in Jersey and Florida.

 

Is it finally time to combine Pro FWD and Hot Rod?
NO! Never. It's like combining bananas and mayo, it just doesn't sit well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boost_dependent &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[QUOTE=fieldafm]... but i think modified should be seeing full fields, especially with the new rules favoring the puerto rican cars

Uh.....what rules are we talking about that favor Puerto Rican cars???? Paul and Justin have each run 7.25's and 190mph apiece. Are you talking about THOSE RULES that allow them to run those times??? As far as I can see, seems like the rules still favor the 2jz's and bigger $$ teams. There are 4 cars that are "competitive" and then there's us. Paul (7.25) Justin (7.25) Brent (7.3's) Demitrios (8.0's, but he'll be in the 7's by this weekend, count on it.) Far be it from us to complain, but it doesn't seem to me like there are any rules favoring Puerto Rican cars. Besides, not every car with a rotary belongs to a Puerto Rican. Let's face it, it's very very expensive to travel to some of these races that are far away. There will be full fields in Jersey and Florida.</TD></TR></TABLE>

when i say favor... i should have said 'rules that allow the puerto rican cars to compete' whereas a lot of the 3/4 cars couldnt even compete in the class at the beginning of the year... this rule change specifically: "Engine: NHRA accepted engine swaps permitted. Engine does not have to be same corporate make as body used, however, swap must be accepted by NHRA. 2 rotor Mazda in any accepted body style is permitted. "
until september a large number of cars couldnt compete in modified b/c of the same make engine rule

the new 350z powerplant seems to be the only thing capable of competing with the pure power that the toyotas are putting down... but honestly who cares... case in point was luis ferrer who went all the way to the finals at moroso against a full field

jersey and florida will have full fields, but pomona, las vegas, and brandimere are close enough to cali to lure some rotaries or vws from socal to get a full field

again, dont count out the nissan still to debut, and scheepers once the cal gets dialed in

 

i agree on the vegas showing....some friends of mine were there and said, the people in the stands were actually razzing the pro fwd cars and all motor...the ones they liked was modified and pro rear......some of them were laughing......they hated pro fwd cars to begin with......i agree on the size of the class anyway.......it needs to be combined....the nelson and Lisa show is gone so no one cares anymore............the only one worth watching is ed.....love that guy........the saturn is old news and no big deal...it runs 7s ,,we all want something new...hot rod, the only one to watch is lummas anyway......he cant be beat......i say combine and see what happens........just an opinion....

 

It was a poor showing for the fwd cars in vegas but i don't think the classes should be combined, it is still very early in the season and the small budget teams need time to work out the bugs out of their cars old or new. E-town should have 6 or 7 cars for pro fwd, and hotrod should also have a close to full-field. it might be another 2-3 years before these classes see full competetive fileds but the main reason is the lack of money and funding for the teams.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how the turnout in Virginia is this weekend in the pro & hot rod fwd classes...if its the same as it has been then I will start to worry.

 

You guys have to remember one thing, there are only about 7 ProFWD caliber cars in existence and none of them run in all the same series. Some go to NHRA some go to NOPI while others attend a few of both. So even with the stars in alignment, there will only be an 8 car field
1. Mazda - Bergenholtz
2. GM - Ladwig
3. Saturn - Hunt
4. Steph's Coupe
5. Steph's Hatch ( which will never race again! )
6. Mopar - Carlson
7. Jojo Callos

Soon to be completed:
1. Leevon's
2. Brent from PFI
3. Rado

Forgive me if I forgot someone. But as you can see, what we need is MORE competitiors in that class. Hot rod has numerous competitors, plenty of which are all in the running. Sure, the GM cars may be out in front, but that is no reason to assume that combining the classes would make ANY difference. Until parity can be found by the race teams and drivers ( and NOT the sanctioning bodies ), then that is just that. If you were to take away the aftermarket tranmissions from the Hot Rod class, then there will still be a HUGE gap between cars. From 10.00's all the way to 8.40's The trans does NOT make the difference, it only makes reliability for a better show.

There is almost NOTHING in common between ProFWD and HotRod. Engine config, chassis design, weight, hell, even manufacturer. It has been said time and time again, but the only real answer is for teams to step it up. We can't afford to run against GM, but hey, we do. Hell, we even won a Wally with a little help from Lady Luck herself.

Sorry, I just don't see why people are pushing for a combination of two completely different classes, it just makes NO sense to me whatsoever!

Vince


Modified by GoldenEagleMfg.com at 1:54 PM 4/21/2005

 

hey since everybody is crying about not enough cars in the feild. then seombody start to sponser me... I could have a car ready by the start of next season vince

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bottle fed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey since everybody is crying about not enough cars in the feild. then seombody start to sponser me... I could have a car ready by the start of next season vince</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have about $5 left over......
By the way, I like the avatar

 

C'mon Art, speak your mind.......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GoldenEagleMfg.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">C'mon Art, speak your mind.......</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GoldenEagleMfg.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I have about $5 left over......
By the way, I like the avatar </TD></TR></TABLE>

hey if I got $5 from everybody It could be done

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GoldenEagleMfg.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">C'mon Art, speak your mind.......</TD></TR></TABLE>

I seen where he was the last one to post... but no post