hey guys, as you can tell from my screen name, i'm not the type of person that's all that knowledgeable about NA setups...
i plan on converting my long turbo'd DC2 to full NA spec. don't ask why

anyways, i've been reading up a lot regarding your setups and people's questions... i have a few myself, but from doing a search here and there, i've found mixed answers and sometimes threads that go nowhere.

so, here are my thoughts and questions...

i have a pair of toda spec C cams with the toda valve spring set. i'm not sure how many people here have these cams on their C5, C1, or b16... but, i'd like to know what kind of setups you have? i'm mainly concerned with piston to valve clearance issues... so, if you have the C cams, high static compression, and a milled head or milled block... please let me know what you're running...

my issue is that i have a b18c1 block that i've been planning on using, however the surface of this block needs to be milled about 0.015 due to scratches. i'm also planning on getting headwork done which would also be resurfaced for better headgasket mating. i'm guessing about 0.010"... so, in total i'm looking at about 0.025" of head and block surface removal...
now, do i stay with the b18c1 block, throw in some 12.0-12.5:1 pistons, and get a thicker headgasket to make up for the milling?
or, go with an entirely new block, say a B20z or B20a block, throw in the same compression pistons, modify the valve indentations on the pistons for good piston to valve clearance?

well, here's what my plan is: please let me know what you'd do in your situation

setup 1:
b18c1 block decked approx. 0.015"
ITR oil pump
0.020" overbored 12.0-12.5:1 forged pistons
crower rods
arp head bolts
b16a2 head worked by porflow (decked approx. 0.010")
thicker head gasket
toda spec c cams
toda valve springs
portflow Ti retainers
ITR intake manifold
ITR bored t-body
440cc injectors
hondata stage 4
GSR tranny (kaaz) with JDM ITR final drive

or setup 2:
B20z or B20a block, no decking
ITR oil pump
0.020" overbored 12.0-12.5:1 forged pistons
84.5mm bores
eagle rods
arp head bolts
b16a2 head worked by porflow (decked approx. 0.010")
combustion chambers opened to 84.5mm
toda spec c cams
toda valve springs
portflow Ti retainers
ITR intake manifold
ITR bored t-body
440cc injectors
hondata stage 4
GSR tranny (kaaz)

what would you do?
? thanks, i appreciate any help


oh yeah, on a side note...

anyone know where a Bioelectronics Engineer can find work?

 

oh yeah, forgot to add that i'm using a clutchmaster/fidanza flywheel and exedy race clutch setup...

and i have a set of z10 bars...

oh yeah, and the b20/vtec setup will be modified for a girdle setup and oil squirters..

my goal is to run low 12s with the car partially gutted...
and still be able to take it to a road course for some fun...
approx desired HP is around 250whp




[Modified by TurboT, 12:28 AM 1/30/2002]

 

anyone?

 

I like idea number one. Just use Toda head gasket to give you clearance. I'd also add maybe an ATS 1st gear and a Type R 3rd/4th gear to close up your gear ratios on the strip. Sounds like a fantastic setup!

 

Dude it was 4am when you wrote that, everyone has to sleep some time

I think that the setup would be nice, I think Import Review has dyno plots of B20's with the aggresive cams. I dont know if you know there website but its www.importreview.com

I like the Idea's of Toda C's on a built 2 liter, as lip can testify you can make some HP, lol

he was pushing 240+ and from what he has said here before, he barely tuned the car, with more Dyno time that motor has 260whp written all over it

 

You'll need the B20 to make that power. If you use a B20/LS crank you'll be at 2020cc with an 85mm piston or 1979cc with 85mm piston and B18C crank. Your rod/stroke ratio will be slightly better (1.583:1) than the B20 (1.539:1).

 

[QUOTE]hey guys, as you can tell from my screen name, i'm not the type of person that's all that knowledgeable about NA setups...
i plan on converting my long turbo'd DC2 to full NA spec. don't ask why


i know why(hehehe)... because your car ran like poo poo at joliet...
boy you TCL guys sure do change your styles up quick huh? you going all motor, tommy going for that
blah "jdm look"blah. and the kid with the gaylude selling his rims to my boy and talking about going all performance instead of looks... this is great

 

and still be able to take it to a road course for some fun...


how did i know this was goig to be posted? Are you going to roll to gingerman in june?
me and a few peeps are also going to check out the ITR expo, you should roll with us.

 

wow, i didn't know that toda had thicker gaskets....
cool, thanks dan...


oh yeah, Dave is saying to throw in a b18c1 crank into the b20 block...
will it be a drop in? or will modifications be necessary?

thanks guys

 

tell me about it

yeah, i think joliet and that last GLD event just did it for me...
after that, i told myself that i threw with turbo...

tommy just got his car back... i think he's got something up his sleeve


ah, i think you're talking about my boy sashi...
he's done with the show scene too... i think we got him on the speed bug...

 

Personally, I would keep the B18C block and have it sleeved to 85mm...that will be the most reliable setup. You will keep the better R/S Ratio, oil squirters, and the girdle.

You will need displacment if you want the kind of power you are talking about.

 

hehehe, yeah... going to try and make it for the gingerman event...
gotta beef up the suspension

 

i like that idea, but again, i'm worried about the piston to valve clearance...
do you think i should get a thicker head gasket too with the 85mm bores?

something like the cometic gasket?

 

"do people tell you that you have a driving impediment? the solution?
a turbo for your car... the solution to all driving problems" <MY *****!SOME PEOPLE JUST CANT DRIVE!!

First you friggin nosebleed in my orange soda and now you wanna go all motor!?Whats up with you TodaT?Well you got my support.Lets break 13's this time boyyeee!And dont friggen aim so high...take one step at a time.When you tell everyone the car will be XXX amount of HP and beware of a XXsecond car comin soon....And it does alot slower than those times.Its a heartbreaker.So if you need me help you got it.Good luck!

Mikey

 

 

Just wondering...correct me if im wrong.....but.... Can you even safely Rev a B20 block to that high RPM (9000-9500) to take full advantage of Spec C cams?

Edit, mah bad, i didnt see SMSPs post about an LS crank.


[Modified by PrjctDC2-R, 11:07 AM 1/30/2002]

 

if assembled correctly, yes

 

is this car gonna be daily driven??.. or a full blown race car??
that compression might be to high for street, i would say b20vtec if you know someone or you can build it safe...

if you do go with b18c1 get some lighter rods... crower rods are kinda heavy....

good luck


[Modified by Jordo, 9:01 PM 1/30/2002]

 

the car is my weekend car...

so, it'll not be daily driven...

as for the b20 block idea...
hm... GSR crank in the b20 sounds good... do i use gsr rods or LS rods?

oh yeah, and are the width of the crank caps the same for the GSR, LS, and B20 crank?

how much heavier are crower rods than say, eagle rods?
i though crowers were pretty light....



thanks all

 

No, its a lame idea.

The mains are the same.

crower rods are kinda heavy man

 

steve,

should i stay with a b20 crank?
or use a different crank?

i'd like to hit about 9200rpms... i'm thinking that'll be good enough for the spec C cams with 12.3 or so compression pistons.

what rods should i go with?

oh yeah, steve... what's up with marc? i haven't heard from him

 

more stroke = more power.
r:s ratio isnt quite as important as some of these guys make it sound.

get some eagle rods

 

ok, so b20 block, b20 crank, LS eagle rods...

should i overbore? to say 84.5mm?

that sound about right?

crank girdle and oil squirters will be necessary right?

 

84.5 or 85

girdle yes
squirters optional

 

ok, i'll go with the 84.5mm pistons...

should i use a stock girdle or z10 girdle?

y optional on the squirters?
aren't they necessary at high rpm applications?