Allright....so last year i had a 40mm wastegate on a FR manifold. End of the year when it started getting cold out, it started creeping a little bit. So this year i opted for a 44mm one. So anyways i send the manifold back to FR and they reflanged it for me. Put it on with no problems. Drive the car today assuming it to be around 12-13psi and it goes up to like 16-18psi. No boost controller hooked up. Checked hose from turbo to wastegate. Everything looks good. I hear the wastegate opening when i'm driving, just dont know when exactly it opens. Anyone got any thoughts?? Bad wasteagate?? could the spring be put in upside down?? i got nothing. any help would be great. thanks in advance.

Josh

 

i always thought bigger wastegates creeped more

 

it should be based on the spring pressure. also, wouldnt it creep less b/c theres a bigger opening for the gases to travel through?

 

So the wastegate is the only thing you changed? What spring is in the 44mm? what spring was in the 40mm? How much did the 40mm spike too?

 

yeah...only thing i changed. big blue spring is in the 44mm . the big redspring was in the 40mm. If i remember correctly, the 40mm spiked to like 15 to 18...but thats only when it was getting kinda cold out. This 44 likes to start to even out at around 18-19psi.

 

wow i never head of fr manifold having creep problems...I know my 40mm doesnt creep but i dont have fr manifold. The smaller the wastegate i heard was for large amounts of boost and large wastegate = less boost.

 

I'm almost certain that the measurements for the TIAL (35mm, 38mm, 44mm) tells us the size of the WG orifice. If so then a larger WG hole is better suited to control spikes and creep. Think about it: your turbo setup spikes or creeps when the exhaust gasses cannot exit out the WG fast enough because it is too small. So since the gasses cannot go through the WG, it has to go through the turbine.

SpoolnG2,

I dont think I can help much. But I would look at the WG actuator lines if I was you. I would think that if it is kinked, too small, or too long then it might cause problems with your boost pattern. Where do you have the actuator hooked up to? is it your compressor or your intake manifold?

 

the problem is your big blue spring. I like the small blue springs, they sit boost right around 13 psi. You deifnatley do not want to run a big spring, run the small ones. Also blue is the highest spring pressure for the size. If you want LOWWWWWWWWWWW boost run the small yellow, if you want 7-9 psi run the small red

 

just curious, but why would a 13psi spring hold the pressure at 13psi?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deftones0817 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow i never head of fr manifold having creep problems...I know my 40mm doesnt creep but i dont have fr manifold. The smaller the wastegate i heard was for large amounts of boost and large wastegate = less boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>

are you serious??

You never gonna fix that boost creep problem. I used a small green (5.80psi) in my 44mm, it would creep to around 14-15psi.

A big blue spring = 13.05psi, and a small blue is (7.25psi)

 

Yea, there are several full race manifolds with creep issues. But it's not really the manifold's fault it flows so much. It's the fact that the turbo's those guys are using are huge....that coimbo, large turbo, high flowing manifold = lots of boost!

 

Jordo -- As far as i know, you are our only customer so far whos single 44 couldnt properly control boost.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jordo -- As far as i know, you are our only customer so far whos single 44 couldnt properly control boost. </TD></TR></TABLE>

aw that makes since. Im crused .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jordo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

aw that makes since. Im crused .</TD></TR></TABLE>

Truer words are rarely spoken on H-T..


Sorry my friend

 

you may be cursed, but you have a sick as hell wastegate setup now

 

what i'm confused about is why a 44mm wastegate cant control 12-13psi on a t3/04e turbo. I'm not running a massive turbo or anything. 44mm should be more then large enough to let all the access gas exit IMO. i'm just curious why i should have to buy a 7 or 9 lb spring when i wanna run 12-13 psi.

 

it may be a 7-9 psi spring on a 38mm gate, but this is a 44mm gate which uses a much larger diaphragm, as a result xx spring rate will be a higher boost

 

If you check http://www.tialsport.com they have a Wastegate Spring Pressure Chart now

"Spring Pressures
Per Application
Bar PSI Description OD
WG35mm 0.3 4.35 Small Yellow 1.875 in.
0.45 6.35 Small Red
0.65 9.43 Small Green
0.8 11.60 Small Blue
WG35mmHP* 0.95 13.78 Big Yellow 2.36 in.
1.1 15.95 Big Red
1.35 19.58 Big Green
1.5 21.75 Big Blue
WG38/40mm .25 3.63 Small Yellow 1.875 in.
0.4 5.80 Small Red
0.5 7.25 Small Green
0.6 8.70 Small Blue
0.7 10.15 Big Yellow
0.8 11.60 Big Red
0.9 13.05 Big Green
1.0 14.50 Big Blue
WG38/40mmHP 1.1 15.95 **
1.2 17.40 **
1.3 18.85 **
1.4 20.30 **
1.5 21.75 **
1.6 23.20 **
WG44/46mm .2 2.9 Small Yellow 1.875 in.
0.3 4.35 Small Red
0.4 5.80 Small Green
0.5 7.25 Small Blue
0.6 8.70 Big Yellow
0.7 10.15 Big Red
0.8 11.60 Big Green
0.9 13.05 Big Blue
WG38/40mmHP 1.0 14.50 **
1.1 15.95 **
1.2 17.40 **
1.3 18.85 **
1.4 20.30 **
* All Standard WG35mm Springs can also be used for WG35mmHP.
**You can combine Big & Small Springs to get the PSI that you need for HP. "

http://tialsport.com/springapp.html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jerseykid609 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ive never had any creep issues ever i have run the 40mm gate for 3 years now on a FR mani never a creep issue EVER its soo strange that some people do and some dont when its all the same manifold with very simular or even identical turbos and engine combos. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Me neither John and I have a 40mm also, I have had a T3 FR mani and now a T4 Full Race mani with the same 40mm.

 

i have a full race manifold and the 40mm tial wastegate. with the 15 psi spring it would creep to 18 psi by redline...then i tried the 10 psi spring...and it creeped to 13 psi by redline.

so if we want to run 15psi, are you suggesting that we use smaller/lower psi spring, that way we'll get the correct amount of boost we want without it creeping on us?

 

i talked to tial...they said i need to radius out the edge more where the wastegate flange meets the manifold...so that it will flow easier into the wastegate. Only possible thing left. They said they've had a few people call with the same manifold / problem. One guys would go to 18-19 ...he went in there a little and knocked it down and smoothed it out and was then down to about 14...guess he did it a little more and his problem was fixed. So i'm gonna give that a shot i guess.

 

i would try a lighter spring and a MBC. might help

 

i dont wanna have to use a different spring or a mbc though...i want it to work how it should properly. I'm gonna radius the edges and such and see how that works. see how sharp the turns are etc.

 

big turbo + small wastegate=spike probs \

but if you only got a t3/to4e and a 44mm you should absolutly not have a prob..did ya mess with the diaphram

 

What I can't get over is that the 40 had less problems spiking then his 44. weird!