It is time agian for me to try some more things with my current build! If you have not read on my setup before then here is a thread that should catch you up to speed: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1124823


Well as of right now I have an allmotor B18b that put down 170.3 WHP @ 7400 and 135.4 FT-LBS TQ @ 5900. Well I have been back on the drawing board and now have a few good ideas(IMO) on how to make some more power.

I currently have a static compression of 11.0:1 and b/c of my cams I have a dynamic(effective compression) ratio of 10.3:1. Well I want to change this, so I first plan to mill the head .030". This should give me a Static Compression of 11.6:1 to 11.7:1 and a Dynamic compression of 11.0:1. This should put me into the window of being 25% higher than stock compression, that I have heard refered to as the sweet spot!

Next as many of you know the LS head has 31mm Intake valves compared to the 33mm valves a Vtec head has. So I plan on going 1mm over the stock 31mm intake valves. Now I have heard and been told I can go to 33mm intake valves on the LS head but those valves must be custom ordered and I do not want to increase flow so much that I only have usable power on topend! So unless I can find other reasons to go to 33mm, Im sticking with 32mm.

Now I am going to talk about my induction system, although I am unsure if I will follow through with this. I am looking for good mid and top end so I do not want to effect the low-mid range that much. Well I have a Skunk2 IM and I have read about ppl porting it out to increase flow and have seen good results. I have also considered going bigger on my TB, eventhough I already have a 64mm TB now. Would any of this benefit me or could it possibly hurt my power production?

Last off is a new exhaust manifold. A lot of ppl have told me to drop my JDM ITR exhaust manifold for a better one. Well I have done some research and have decided to have one custom made, and to have the head flow tested after the headwork is done. From here I can choose what diameter primaries I need to use. And from that I can calculate what size diameter secondary I need to use. The problem I have now is how to pair the cylinders to the exhaust configuration. Should they be paired so cylinders that fire 90 degrees apart work together or so cylinders that fire 180 degrees apart work together?

My next question in the exhaust system is should I run a resonator? I currently have a custom 2.5" exhaust piping back to an Apexi N1 muffler. No cat, no resonator! I read that the design muffler I have isnt the best design for pressure wave propagation. It is not seen as a pipe end but as a substanial increase in collector length, which reults in power loss eventhough there is no measurable back pressure. I read that this can be corrected with a resonator, but I have no clue as to which one to use? Maybe Kteller can chime in and give me some advice!


Well these are my ideas that I have been throwing around to try and increase the power/torque output of my engine. Please give me some feedback, both positive and negative feedback is welcome; but please refrain from the usual "Just get a Vtec head!" response. If I wanted to be like everybody else then I would have used a vtec head!

Recap: Trying to increase power(hp & tq) output of my allmotor LS.

Ideas:
1. Raise Compression more by milling head
2. Use oversized valves
3. Port Skunk2 IM
3. Get a TB bigger than 64mm
4. Custom Exhaust Manifold
5. Add a Resonator to my exhaust setup

 

im still learning about this non vtec all motor stuff sorry i cant help but what happened to the video you were supposed to post on nonvtec.com?

 

Wanna make more powa?

VTEC!

I know you were waiting for that!

Looks good man, im willing to bet a bigger TB won't help out a whole lot, but it never hurts to try, maybe borrow one and hit the dyno before you buy, just to see if it will benifit you. I know most 1.8 vtec engines work well with 64-65mm TB's you aren't reving as high as those though. Looks good

 

the header will help you alot in power, i would stick with the 64mm throttle body, resinator shouldn't effect it cause it's striaght thru.. put it in if you want your exhaust qiuter and deeper, shave the head like you want to do.. everybody knows that will help.. well im not goin to say get a vtec head.. i respect the power nonvtec make.. maybe you heard of my freind on here hondafiend 04.. he has a h23 prelude he's trying to hit 200whp if i remember right... he's gettin there.. good luck on gettin more stuff done with your build

 

how did you figure out dyanmic compression w/ your cams?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbofienD 04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the header will help you alot in power, i would stick with the 64mm throttle body, resinator shouldn't effect it cause it's striaght thru.. put it in if you want your exhaust qiuter and deeper, shave the head like you want to do.. everybody knows that will help.. well im not goin to say get a vtec head.. i respect the power nonvtec make.. maybe you heard of my freind on here hondafiend 04.. he has a h23 prelude he's trying to hit 200whp if i remember right... he's gettin there.. good luck on gettin more stuff done with your build </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks! The only reason I mention the resonator is b/c of the style muffler I had. It actually hurts my performance, so I have read! The new Popular Hot Rodding mag has an article this month on Exhaust Technology, and the science behind it all

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaIntegraR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how did you figure out dyanmic compression w/ your cams?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dynamic Compression Calculator:
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/comprAdvHD.htm

 

bump

 

its admirable sticking to the nonvtec head. Even the biggest nonvtec cam out there today has a crapload of p-t-v clearance on a stock piston valverelief and stock valve. I recommend you mill a good 40 thous off and a two layer headgasket. Use the toda racing header for the ITR they work very will with the nonvtec setup.

I saw a ported head forsale somewhere around for cheap, may wanna search around and buy an already done head.

in terms of intake manifold, I'd say try a stock b20z for now and see if it likes it ... more displacement so manifold must flow better than the ls.

Greg

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CHEETAH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its admirable sticking to the nonvtec head. Even the biggest nonvtec cam out there today has a crapload of p-t-v clearance on a stock piston valverelief and stock valve. I recommend you mill a good 40 thous off and a two layer headgasket. Use the toda racing header for the ITR they work very will with the nonvtec setup.

I saw a ported head forsale somewhere around for cheap, may wanna search around and buy an already done head.

in terms of intake manifold, I'd say try a stock b20z for now and see if it likes it ... more displacement so manifold must flow better than the ls.

Greg</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would mill more, but I here that there are timing belt issues once you go past .030". I already have a Skunk2 IM, but was planning to port that rather than the stocker

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I would mill more, but I here that there are timing belt issues once you go past .030". I already have a Skunk2 IM, but was planning to port that rather than the stocker</TD></TR></TABLE>

compensate with adjustable camgears ...

skunk2 manny is good.

greg

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CHEETAH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

compensate with adjustable camgears ...

skunk2 manny is good.

greg</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know, .5 degree retard for every .010" milled. But what I am saying is that I have heard of the Timing belt being too loose after .030" I dont want to have to go thru modifying the tensioner!

Yeah I already have a Skunk2 IM but I have heard of positive results from porting it; so I may port it!

 

Some more ppl read this ****! ^

 

Hmmmmm...

ITB's maybe.

 

itb's wont really help that much.. you could get more power out of a good race manifold

 

This seems very intresting. You get props for trying to be different! .Why not try and use diy ITB's to see if they offer more flow than a ported skunk manifold? Have you considered using flat-top valves to raise compression? i think the header will make a hugh difference....Good luck!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbofienD 04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">itb's wont really help that much.. you could get more power out of a good race manifold</TD></TR></TABLE> How wont ITB's help much? they flow better than a ported skunk2 mani or a "good race manifold"...

 

UI talked to Don F aobut ITB's and started making a set but ended the project when Don F told me ift would drastically affect low and mid range power. My main reason for the build is for use on the auto-x and road race venue! Don F had an Allmotor LS that put down 272 bhp with ITB's! Kinda crazy huh, but I want someting a lil more tame!

I started doing some research on the exhaust manifold and system and then stumbled upon some ppl with a lot of knowledge onthe matter that point me in the right direction. Also, this month's Popular Hot Rodding has an excellent Exhaust tech article. I picked one up and read it good, info! I know what you are thinking but it also covered the diferences between 4 cyl and 8 cyl. Also technology is science and most of it will apply to your motor as much as it would apply to a V8! If you are looking for some good pointers on building a "no loss" exhaust system then pick this issue!

Anyway, I discovered there is a lot of math involved in creating a perfect exhaust manifold and system for your car. And that depends on your engine build and set up. Depending on how much cfm your head flows at full lift will determine what size(diameter) primaries to should use. Also unlike V8's, 4 cylinders are sensitive to Primary length so equal length primaries are good for 4 cyl's. Next theree is a formula for what size your secondary collector should be depending on the size of your primaries. The only thing getting me is should I go 4-1 or long primary 4-2-1? Next depending on where you want power depends on how long you make your collector pipe. This also depends on where you will peak in rpm! So there is a lot of planning to do when making your own custom exhaust manifold; and I plan on making my own b/c I will use the info I have to build one, with the help given by a few good ppl that have offered a lending hand to give me pointers and advice!(You ppl know who you are! Thanx! )

Also after reading that article I discover the straight thru design muffler I have is robbing me of a few horses, since I do not have a cat, the system see it as a very long collector. Thats why i was thinking of using a resonator b/c in doing so the article states that it will be used as a termination box and everything after that will be invisible to the system!


If anyone else has any information on this, feel free to lend me advice, so I know if I am interpreting this correctly!

 

bump

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbofienD 04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">itb's wont really help that much.. you could get more power out of a good race manifold</TD></TR></TABLE>

More peak possibly depending upon tuning, however it would be hard to match the potential midrange (again depending upon tuning and in this case design as well).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">UI talked to Don F aobut ITB's and started making a set but ended the project when Don F told me ift would drastically affect low and mid range power. My main reason for the build is for use on the auto-x and road race venue! Don F had an Allmotor LS that put down 272 bhp with ITB's! Kinda crazy huh, but I want someting a lil more tame!</TD></TR></TABLE>

A lot of it depends upon the exact design of the setup. I've put together a few smaller setups that made great midrange gains with small top end gains and a couple of larger setups that killed low to mid power and really helped up top. To each his own, I just thought I'd throw in my personal opinion.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kendall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

More peak possibly depending upon tuning, however it would be hard to match the potential midrange (again depending upon tuning and in this case design as well).

A lot of it depends upon the exact design of the setup. I've put together a few smaller setups that made great midrange gains with small top end gains and a couple of larger setups that killed low to mid power and really helped up top. To each his own, I just thought I'd throw in my personal opinion.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Thanx! So what should I go with, a 38mm, 42mm, or a 46mm set of ITB's. I have the stuff to make it now, just have to finish it! I guess I could build it and dyno test it! If it works........Good, if not back to the Sk2 IM!

 

did you consider bigger plenum on a s2 manifold? you can mill you head as much as you want and shouldn't have any t-belt problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KraZEtEggIE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did you consider bigger plenum on a s2 manifold? you can mill you head as much as you want and shouldn't have any t-belt problems.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How would I do that?

 

well if you decide to go with ITB's i have a set of TWM ITB's for an ls head that i will let go for 1k

 

Itb's, bigger valves and more porting....dont you think 38 or 42mm is to small for an Ls?

 

Yeah I was told 50mm was optimium, but I would loose low and mid! So Im thinking 42mm would be good enough that I wont loose midrange and still keep some topend!

But it is so much tuning that I think I would rather go with side-draft carbs or just stick with my Skunk2 IM!

I wasnt planning to go overkill on the skunk2 IM, but I have seen good results from shaping the top of the runners in the plenum to work as a velocity stack!